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Old 01-14-2013, 11:34 AM   #406
bearorso
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I see a lot of similarities between Robby Gordon and Tony Alessi - I can watch a video / hear an interview with either of them, and come out thinking, either, "he's a good bloke", or, "he's a total ****wit".

So, so polarising.

Just going by what RG said in that - His - video, if there were 9 cars who got through earlier, I'd say that the rest of the field, should get a 10th placing - I've no idea of the nominal gap you'd place from the final, actual finisher. 1 minute / 10 minutes, and so on and so forth, Perhaps a mean of the time gaps added together between the first 9? Who the hell knows / could get it "right".

When you see the water coming through / up in a lot of the videos, you can certainly see that it's just a bit more than the natural disadvantage ( most of the time) competitors can have after preceding drivers have gone through ( just setting aside the "marked track" side of things that can be an advantage). Ever been in a starting to flood, dry river bed, or a further flooding river, people ? I have, and it sure as hell isn't a soothing thing to be confronted with .

We don't know - but, perhaps Nasser had got to the flooding dry river beds. That's what He said happened in an interview. Who to believe?????????????? Do they have recordable traces of the cars / bikes? - in this day and age, surely that's possible, with reasonably secure 'available only to the organisers' settings.

I'd Never take RGs word for other competitors positions / motives / etc, nor others views on His position / motives etc, and the organisers decisions. As I would Never, with regards to others opinions on anyone else. They are all going to be from their own perspectives / prejudices. You'd be a Humper, for whoever you took as being the "honest one", out of any of them.

As I said, RG, can polarise just my own opinion of him, within a few words.

Perhaps, that's the real, one great talent / one great failing he has?

The Dakar would be quite a bit less interesting, without him, with regards to the cars, that's for sure.
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:46 AM   #407
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Originally Posted by larryboy View Post
A majority of the cars and bikes that got into trouble with the water had gotten lost earlier, if they had navigated properly the flooding wouldn't have been a factor for most and they could have matched the remaining guys to say a 60th place time...not 4th...gimme a break.
But if you give all the non-finishers a slow time then what about the possible person who started way down but was on pace to do an excellent stage? Or if you just throw out the whole stage then what about the people who beat their cars/bikes up to actually finish? There's no way to be fair to everyone. Tough calls like this have to be made sometimes in the dakar, and there will always be someone who gets the short end of the stick.

I suppose you could say that the officials should never change the stages like this, but then you'd have to be prepared for the possibility of years with zero finishers. I doubt sponsors would stay in a race like that.

Anyway, time to move on and enjoy the rest of the race.
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Old 01-14-2013, 01:39 PM   #408
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So I guess you don't realize that there is a huge amount of time to get all of the cars off the start line?? What happened was that a few cars got through the drainage and then due to thunderstorms flash floods made it impassable for everyone else. Do you want to give everyone except the few who able to cross before the flood a DNF and send them home??? Rallys commonly neutralize stages due to problems and everyone is given the same time. Oh wait....... they don't do that in Nascar do they???
So, no Racers who were stuck behind the rising water finished after the flood subsided?

( I am catching up after a weekend in the boonies)

Did the organizers stop all of the slower Racers at the waters edge to protect them or did the Racers take their chances and lose out by getting stuck? I could understand the ASO decision if the flash flood time penalty was the result of a decision to stop the Racers at the flood, but if the Racers were allowed to proceed and some succeeded then those that eventually succeeded should benefit from the effort.

It's happened before on the Baja 500 in 1990, and the Racers stuck behind the flood east of Valle De Trinidad were not "equalized" (just one more difference between Off-Road Racing and a Rally).

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Old 01-14-2013, 04:08 PM   #409
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Originally Posted by 340hp View Post
So, no Racers who were stuck behind the rising water finished after the flood subsided?

( I am catching up after a weekend in the boonies)

Did the organizers stop all of the slower Racers at the waters edge to protect them or did the Racers take their chances and lose out by getting stuck? I could understand the ASO decision if the flash flood time penalty was the result of a decision to stop the Racers at the flood, but if the Racers were allowed to proceed and some succeeded then those that eventually succeeded should benefit from the effort.

It's happened before on the Baja 500 in 1990, and the Racers stuck behind the flood east of Valle De Trinidad were not "equalized" (just one more difference between Off-Road Racing and a Rally).

Funny I was just talking about that with some other guys, supposedly there was one guy in a class 9 car that hydroplaned across it, everyone else was piled up behind the water. It was said that Score adjusted the times of those stuck.
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Old 01-14-2013, 08:03 PM   #410
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Originally Posted by Strong Bad View Post
Funny I was just talking about that with some other guys, supposedly there was one guy in a class 9 car that hydroplaned across it, everyone else was piled up behind the water. It was said that Score adjusted the times of those stuck.


There was a Mini-Mag followed by a Class 8 truck that tried crossing as the water was rising, and the drivers were pulled the last half of the way across by a long chain of straps from the west side. Water was washing over the helmet of the Mini-Mag driver & buggy as it was crabbing sideways in the current before some spectators could get a strap attached. A Class 7 Ranger tried to jump the river about 50 meters southwest of the road and ended up getting pulled off the west bank by about 100 locals and spectators. These were the last vehicles to try crossing until the water level dropped.



As the water dropped a few chase vehicles plowed through followed by a few Class 8 trucks, and then racers on straps began crossing with the pulling help of the taller race trucks and chase vehicles.

I was behind the Semi & Trailer at the edge of the rising water on the west side. When the Semi driver stopped with about 100 meters to go before the wash I got out to see why, and it was raining so hard I could not see the wash. The driver opened his window enough to tell me in Spanish that it was foolish to go around and across the wash. Before our conversation was over the water was at his front tires.

The sky was nearly clear with no trace of rain potential before the water level started dropping.

I wonder why a flash flood delay is treated different than an impassable vehicle stack-up on the hills climbing out of narrow canyons or the narrow cliff-side roads leading to Mike's?


Did anyone who got stuck at the Dakar behind the rising water continue on to finish the stage?
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Old 01-15-2013, 02:11 AM   #411
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Old 01-15-2013, 05:57 AM   #412
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In rally we have the Force-majeure rule which deals with the closed stage scenario....and that is when the stages closes after some cars have finished and gives the time of the last person to finish at speed to all the other competitors. It acts as a place holder so everyone gets a stage time and the only people who really get hurt by the rule are the guy who set the time...Not sure if there is any stipulation on how competitive that time were...as in if the last guy to finish were having an epic run and were a minute faster then people behind might pull ahead of the leaders. But usually it works out ok. Having caused a force majeure in an event but also had to give my time to everyone else...I understand all of the ramifications
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:35 AM   #413
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In rally we have the Force-majeure rule which deals with the closed stage scenario....and that is when the stages closes after some cars have finished and gives the time of the last person to finish at speed to all the other competitors. It acts as a place holder so everyone gets a stage time and the only people who really get hurt by the rule are the guy who set the time...Not sure if there is any stipulation on how competitive that time were...as in if the last guy to finish were having an epic run and were a minute faster then people behind might pull ahead of the leaders. But usually it works out ok. Having caused a force majeure in an event but also had to give my time to everyone else...I understand all of the ramifications
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:18 AM   #414
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Of course it's french.

The point that Robby made is that even the best of the best can barely match Peterhansel's time in any stage, complete crap that the whole field got his time when 9 cars finished.

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Old 01-15-2013, 11:22 AM   #415
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:46 PM   #416
Michelangelo
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Old 01-15-2013, 02:09 PM   #417
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it was going the wrong way on the race line that got me.....
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:16 PM   #418
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Must be the same two guys
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:23 PM   #419
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:25 PM   #420
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Hope the guy doesn't go off one of those hills or run into any fences trying to do this.
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