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Old 12-18-2012, 01:27 PM   #166
DAKEZ
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Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
There aren't any states which do not require seatbelts, are there?

Yes. 0ne.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_seat_belt_laws.svg

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Old 12-18-2012, 01:33 PM   #167
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For those of you who think riding without a helmet is your right and doesn't affect others I have a suggestion - go find a family of a person who is an invalid as a result of a brain injury. It doesn't have to be due to a motorcyle accident, any brain injury will give you the insight.
Ask the spouse what it's like to be a slave to that person, caring for him/her like an infant. Except that infant is too big to pick up, turn over, put in a bathtub or move around without help or special equipment.
Ask them what it's like to be a prisoner in their home because they can't afford the cost of a special care person to watch the invalid while they take some time for themselves. Remember, they can't call the teenager next door to watch the "kid" while they go out. And the biggest difference between caring for an invalid vs. an infant, the invalid never grows up to be able to care for themselves. It goes on until the invalid or the caregiver dies.
Ask them how they feel about the monumental cost of healtcare. I'll bet they will tell you that they are greatful for the government assistance but guilty at the same time.
Most of these families are living a nightmare. If it because of a brain injury caused by riding a motorcycle without a helmet, then that rider was selfish. Yup, that's what it is all about, being selfish. You say you want the freedom to decide, the freedom to maim yourself if you crash. But it's not about you, it's about those around you. So go ahead, be as selfish as you want; it IS your right. Just think about it now and again.
As the father of a child with Cerebral Palsy from prematurity, I can tell you that you are dead on. I had good income and good insurance, until she turned 18 I never got one thin dime of government money. I have caregivers PTSD as a result.It is getting better though. Motorcycle therapy I would not wish this on any one, but I did it somehow. I am sure my retirement account would have another 100K in it at least after all the insurance did not cover.


Rod
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Old 12-18-2012, 02:28 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by dirtinthevillage View Post
. In theory, therefore, helmet laws are responsible for lower insurance premiums.
That is the claim but yet to be substantiated by fact.

In reality, the opposite is true, insurance rates in states that do not require helmets is generally lower

could it be that helmeted riders crash more often ?
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Old 12-18-2012, 02:31 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by Shov3BR View Post
For those of you who think riding without a helmet is your right and doesn't affect others I have a suggestion.....

News flash. You can sustain a traumatic brain injury while wearing a helmet.
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Old 12-18-2012, 02:36 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
Yes. 0ne.
Live Free or Die, Bitch!

And regarding the lack of debate over seatbelt laws, I'm guessing you will find a VERY strong correlation in peoples' views toward both helmet and seatbelt laws.
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Old 12-18-2012, 03:06 PM   #171
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You know people who attend religious services increase my tax burden through accidents that happen to and from those services, added traffic and pollution, increased housing costs due to less real estate available, blah, blah, blah. Funny how we don't hear anybody arguing a cost benefit analysis for Freedom of Religion.

Since I always wear a helmet, helmet laws don't directly impact me. And since I don't attend religious services, Freedom of Religion doesn't directly impact me. However, both are based in the underlying value that people should be able to make their own decisions without undue government interference. So even when a limit on personal choice doesn't directly affect me, I still see the need in free society to protect that choice.

These freedoms are never absolute and all freedoms yield to societal interest at some point. I will fully concede the right to attend a religious service of your choice far outweighs the choice to forego a helmet. But nonetheless, there is a personal choice in both cases that needs to be respected. The question should simply be where we feel the right to make that choice yields.

Now, to end this debate, I hereby put the value of living in a country where we have the choice to wear a helmet to be $1 per person. So, if you can show me that the direct costs of riding helmetless (not riding uninsured) in the US is $300,000,000/year or more, I will concede we should have a helmet law. Let me know when you get that number.

The end.
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:12 PM   #172
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I think a case could be made for seat belt laws such that you are more likely to remain conscious after an accident and possibly maintain some control of the vehicle. Two+ tons of weight is a big responsibility and anything that can be done to minimize the damage to others should be worthwhile. I do hate how seat belt laws are marketed though, if they want to do the whole "it could save your life" bit, It should be talking about how it could save your mother or your children unnecessary grief. Telling me you're forcing something on me for my own protection is just asinine.
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:56 AM   #173
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Which of the absolute-rights people thinks that mandating traction control on SUVs is a bad thing?
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Old 12-19-2012, 04:47 AM   #174
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I really miss being able to drink while driving. I have always felt it should be ok for drunks to drive between 2-4 A.M., Seriously, who else is out then?

Mom's shouldn't get MADD if you're driving at that time of day....

Drugs, Gambling, and Prostitution should be ok then too, just so we can all try them to see if it's "worth breaking the laws over."

I want some REAL freedom & rights!
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:37 AM   #175
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It does suprise me how many motorcyclist in US are pro helmet laws when so many non-motorcyclist see riding as highly dangerous regardless of whether you wear a helmet or not. I should think any motorcyclist would oppose such laws because we if accept them then how far down the road is a restriction on riding all together....after all even in full gear your much more likely to be seriously injured on a motorcycle than you are in car.
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:15 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by Offcamber View Post
....after all even in full gear your much more likely to be seriously injured on a motorcycle than you are in car ...IF you are in an accident.

**you're** [klay]



Don't be a dumb ass when you ride and the risk is actually quite low.
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:59 AM   #177
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Which of the absolute-rights people thinks that mandating traction control on SUVs is a bad thing?
I wouldn't consider myself "absolute rights", but traction control CAN be a bad thing, especially if you can't turn it off.

Jeep got a lot of things right with the electric gizmos and doo-dads in their JK Wranglers. Almost all of that stuff can be turned off if you choose, but it's available if you want to leave it on. I prefer a beat-around offroader to be simpler, but it's nice to have modern options available too. Choice is generally a good thing, IMO.
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Old 12-19-2012, 10:05 AM   #178
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I really miss being able to drink while driving. I have always felt it should be ok for drunks to drive between 2-4 A.M., Seriously, who else is out then?
Drunk drivers are much more likely to hurt somebody besides just themselves. Somebody not wearing a helmet or a seatbelt is not even in the same league of risk to others or others' property as a drunk behind the wheel of a multi-thousand-pound vehicle. 'Poor comparative argument. Try again. You pro-nannystaters are grasping at straws.

Quote:
Drugs, Gambling, and Prostitution should be ok then too, just so we can all try them to see if it's "worth breaking the laws over."

I want some REAL freedom & rights!
Move to Nevada or Colorado...or even to Amsterdam.
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Old 12-19-2012, 10:24 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by Kommando View Post

Move to Nevada or Colorado...or even to Amsterdam.
No freedom there, the Netherlands has a mandatory helmet law.
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:10 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by Kommando View Post
Drunk drivers are much more likely to hurt somebody besides just themselves. Somebody not wearing a helmet or a seatbelt is not even in the same league of risk to others or others' property as a drunk behind the wheel of a multi-thousand-pound vehicle. 'Poor comparative argument. Try again. You pro-nannystaters are grasping at straws.



Move to Nevada or Colorado...or even to Amsterdam.

"Pro nannystater? How can you call a guy that when he's asking for more freedom? And...I never grasp for straws unless there's a milkshake in my hand, otherwise I think they're for sissies & germophobes!

I guess you didn't think I was really serious about my 2-4 A.M. proposal.

Seems only fair, since I can't buy beer here until after 12:noon on Sundays.

I think maybe you're a "closet pro-nannystater"!
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