ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > The perfect line and other riding myths
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-13-2012, 07:44 AM   #106
DAKEZ
Beastly Adventurer
 
DAKEZ's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: OR
Oddometer: 19,696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kommando View Post
Life is rough. Nobody gets through it alive.
This. And the fact that for a species to evolve it must allow the ones that are stupid to kill themselves off by doing their stupid stuff.

No increase to insurance cost... It should be lower not higher for lidless riders.
__________________
“Watch out for everything bigger than you, they have the "right of weight"
Bib

DAKEZ screwed with this post 12-13-2012 at 07:50 AM
DAKEZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2012, 08:31 AM   #107
ttpete
Rectum Non Bustibus
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Dearborn, MI
Oddometer: 5,660
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
This. And the fact that for a species to evolve it must allow the ones that are stupid to kill themselves off by doing their stupid stuff.

No increase to insurance cost... It should be lower not higher for lidless riders.
Stupid clueless people dilute the gene pool. It's better to let them do what they want and meet their demise before they can pass their defective genes on to the next generation. That's how mankind has managed to evolve.
__________________
15 BMW RnineT
10 Ducati 1098 Streetfighter S - "Sleipnir"
09 Kaw Versys
67 Triumph Bonneville TT Special
ttpete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2012, 09:27 AM   #108
Splendidtutional
What does that mean?
 
Joined: Jun 2012
Location: the US Capitol
Oddometer: 47
OK, let me start again. I disagree with helmet, seatbelt, etc. laws on principle. I (nor does anyone else) need to be protected form themselves. Fast food should be allowed, people should be free to make thrier own decisions in their lives, all the way around. By extension, requiring an emergency room to treat anyone who shows up injured REGARDLESS OF THEIR ABILITY TO PAY is bogus. Hospitals are not primarily taxpayer funded. Since they operate as private entities, are thererore private business enterprises at their core (yes their are public hospitals etc. etc, bear with the argument please) This argument extends to where if someone is lying, dying on the side of the road and has no ability to pay for medical care (no insurence, health or vehicular, either could pay for some of the care in this case, depending on state law and exact policy) they should be left there. To die.

If this is what we want to do, then fine, no helmets, seatbelts, etc. for anyone. This extends further, should car manufacturers be required to have them in cars or should they cost $500 as an optional safety item? Federal law now mandates passenger and driver airbags (has since Model Year '97) and is soon (if not already) going to require ABS, traction control, and stability control. My opinion is that yes, seatbelts should be mandated, and probably airbags too because these are 'passive' safety features. Even if I have the right of way, on a dry road, I can still get slammed into by a drunk driver/dumbass/cellphone talker and these devices will help save my life. Just like a helmet.

As far as public costs go, if the government spends less money supporting healthcare i.e. not supplementing emergency rooms because they have to, our taxes 'should' go down. This is my argument. If helmets are mandatory, and they reduce the cost of healthcare for people in motorcycle accidents (the math on this may not be there, I admit, but empirical evidence suggests it might) then the government spends less money on it and our taxes go down, or we get other benefits out of our taxes. You are free to disagree, that is my opinion.

As for the fast food thing, someone else brought it up and I was jsut responding earler. They brought it up based on how overweight people who consume fast food are a burden on the health care system.

And for the record, I am stationed in DC and this place blows and I cant wait to leave. Also, please dont confuse the people of DC with the Federal Governement here. You might find that the people here dislike how the federal government is run (and how it runs/treats the city if DC) more than anywhere else...

Anybody got a soap box I can borrow?
Splendidtutional is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2012, 10:16 AM   #109
Splendidtutional
What does that mean?
 
Joined: Jun 2012
Location: the US Capitol
Oddometer: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
This. And the fact that for a species to evolve it must allow the ones that are stupid to kill themselves off by doing their stupid stuff.

No increase to insurance cost... It should be lower not higher for lidless riders.
I like the evolution argument...
Splendidtutional is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2012, 11:00 AM   #110
rocker59
diplomatico di moto
 
rocker59's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: The Trans-Mississippi
Oddometer: 15,619
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splendidtutional View Post
This extends further, should car manufacturers be required to have them in cars or should they cost $500 as an optional safety item? Federal law now mandates passenger and driver airbags (has since Model Year '97) and is soon (if not already) going to require ABS, traction control, and stability control. My opinion is that yes, seatbelts should be mandated, and probably airbags too because these are 'passive' safety features. Even if I have the right of way, on a dry road, I can still get slammed into by a drunk driver/dumbass/cellphone talker and these devices will help save my life. Just like a helmet.
All manufacturers are required by Federal Law to provide safe products to consumers.

The issue is whether consumers over the age of 18 years should be required by State Law to use helmets and seatbelts.
__________________
Rocker59 (aka guzzimike), Aux Arcs (NW Arkansas)
Moto Guzzi Sport 1100
IBA #24873
"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." - Theodore Roosevelt
rocker59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2012, 11:28 AM   #111
dwoodward
Beastly Adventurer
 
dwoodward's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Pacific NorthWet, Napa Valley North
Oddometer: 5,244
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocker59 View Post
Those things not enumerated in The Constitution are left to The States.



We don't have federal driver's licenses. We don't have federal helmet laws. We don't have federal seat belt laws.
Ditto state constitutions. Show me a state that guarantees a "right" to operate a vehicle of any sort, on any public thoroughfare.
dwoodward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2012, 12:55 PM   #112
Offcamber
Beastly Adventurer
 
Offcamber's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: New Hampshire
Oddometer: 1,728
So what if you ride with a helmet or used your seat belt, the airbag deployed and your still critically injured....should you be left to die if you didn't have insurance? Maybe unless your insured you shouldn't be allowed out of your house?

As for the "public road" argument....bicyclist are allowed to use public roads...yet they pay no registration fees and other than lights and reflectors which are as much for the safety of others as it is for the cyclist they have no personal safety requirements....helmets pads etc...(for adults)

I don't think anyone is arguing that you are safer with a helmet than without but its still a personal choice. Same as putting on sunblock at the beach or not. Maybe we should have a sunblock law, melanoma is a common type cancer. Perhaps you should be left to die if you don't have health insurance because you were to selfish to put on sunblock.

Isn't this all moot anyway. With Obama-care everyone is covered
__________________
"Beer cans explode with a nice loud pop when they are hit by a Heidenau K60 at 40 miles an hour. Now my bike smells like last call..." Me
Offcamber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2012, 01:23 PM   #113
Wraith Rider
Beastly Adventurer
 
Wraith Rider's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Germany
Oddometer: 1,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Epoch of Entropy View Post
Are you telling me that because you don't want to wear a helmet, that you think everyone should have the RIGHT to cross railroad tracks while the bells are blaring and lights blinking, without any sort of penalty?
Of course. These lights and bells are helpful information to know I have to be extra cautious if I want to cross at this very moment. But that's all. There's no reason there should be a penality. Pff... maybe some 5$ fine because I could frighten the train driver or scratch the paint of the train. *shrug*
__________________
"Why not stay in disguise all the time? You know, look like everyone else."
"Because we shouldn't have to."
Wraith Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2012, 02:07 PM   #114
Splendidtutional
What does that mean?
 
Joined: Jun 2012
Location: the US Capitol
Oddometer: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Offcamber View Post
So what if you ride with a helmet or used your seat belt, the airbag deployed and your still critically injured....should you be left to die if you didn't have insurance? Maybe unless your insured you shouldn't be allowed out of your house?

As for the "public road" argument....bicyclist are allowed to use public roads...yet they pay no registration fees and other than lights and reflectors which are as much for the safety of others as it is for the cyclist they have no personal safety requirements....helmets pads etc...(for adults)

I don't think anyone is arguing that you are safer with a helmet than without but its still a personal choice. Same as putting on sunblock at the beach or not. Maybe we should have a sunblock law, melanoma is a common type cancer. Perhaps you should be left to die if you don't have health insurance because you were to selfish to put on sunblock.

Isn't this all moot anyway. With Obama-care everyone is covered
All good points
Under the circumstances, I would say yes, you should be left to die if you are without insurance. Again, this is all argumentative. I dont think people should really be left to die on the side of the road if they are injured, just making a point and trying to take it to the ultimate end of the thought.

Back to Michigan, I like helmet laws, but if you feel that it is the gov't imposing it's ways on you in an unconstitutional way, I can understand that. The argument makes sense. Please understand that the arguments for mandatory helmet laws make sense too. I dont like how Michigans law forces people who have less than 2 years experience to wear helmets but allows those with more to leave them at home. How do you enforce that? Is it just if you get pulled over (like seat belt laws used to be)? Or are they going to be setting up check-points, drunk driving style?

Its just weird and I dont know of anywhere else that has gone back to being a "choice" state after being a helmet state. Does anyone else know if this has happened before?
Splendidtutional is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2012, 02:41 PM   #115
DAKEZ
Beastly Adventurer
 
DAKEZ's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: OR
Oddometer: 19,696
Lazy people cost the tax payer far more money than lidless riders. Able bodied people walking around contacting their drug dealers with iphones and ipads they bought with public money that was supposed to go towards food or technical training.

Injured riders (helmets or no) are an insignificant blip compared to these types.
__________________
“Watch out for everything bigger than you, they have the "right of weight"
Bib
DAKEZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2012, 03:21 PM   #116
kerhonky
Adventure Poser
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Selkirk, NY
Oddometer: 1,138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Epoch of Entropy View Post
Last year Michigan repealed their compulsorily helmet law, which went into effect in early April 2012.
Wait. I'm still trying to figure out how a law that went into effect in early April 2012 was repealed last year.























































Oh, come on. Didn't you all know that another helmet law thread was going to be after about the third post? You have your fun posting ad nauseum about shit that's been posted about ad nauseum for years, I'll have mine picking on people's grammar.
__________________
You learn something new every day if you're not careful.

"When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramiriez, otherwise known as "The Rat."
kerhonky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2012, 07:00 PM   #117
Kommando
Grumpy Young Man
 
Kommando's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Spacecoaster FL
Oddometer: 7,079
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splendidtutional View Post
Its just weird and I dont know of anywhere else that has gone back to being a "choice" state after being a helmet state. Does anyone else know if this has happened before?
Illinois is another.
Kommando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2012, 07:17 PM   #118
GlennR
Playin' in the Fire
 
GlennR's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2010
Location: Boone,NC
Oddometer: 1,993
The sad thing is they did it to increase tourism.

Wonder what laws they might loosen next, to make a few bucks?
GlennR is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2012, 07:20 PM   #119
farmerstu
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Location: Minnesota west central
Oddometer: 426
for perspective, there were more drownings in mn. last year than m.c. fatalities. what do you people who are all for a socialist country think we should do about that?
farmerstu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2012, 10:24 PM   #120
Kommando
Grumpy Young Man
 
Kommando's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Spacecoaster FL
Oddometer: 7,079
Quote:
Originally Posted by farmerstu View Post
for perspective, there were more drownings in mn. last year than m.c. fatalities. what do you people who are all for a socialist country think we should do about that?
WATER IS DA DEBIL! OUTLAW DA WATER!




Kommando is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 09:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014