ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Orange Crush > Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-21-2012, 02:03 PM   #31
Peanuts
Beastly Adventurer
 
Peanuts's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: UK
Oddometer: 1,531
Quote:
Originally Posted by geometrician View Post
I've taken out shims on customer bikes (esp the 250, 350, 400, 450, 500, 530, 690 engines metioned above) with such a depression hammered into them from the top of the valve stem they are unusable.
Me too. Makes it an extra pain to reshim as the clearance with the dimpled shim is artificially large.

I have seen the top of the valve stem bruised so much that the edge had to be ground to allow it to pass through the valve guide.
Peanuts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 02:08 PM   #32
Peanuts
Beastly Adventurer
 
Peanuts's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: UK
Oddometer: 1,531
Back on topic...

Using 2 blades on top of each other is sometimes better than just one thick blade as the combination will flex easier around the cam/bucket area. If you use just one thick blade you can be tricked into interpretting the force required to flex the blade as a tight sliding fit.

I know cos I did it last night! Using a friends straight blades that I did not want to bend....
Peanuts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 03:20 PM   #33
geometrician
let's keep going...
 
geometrician's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: West-By-God Virginia
Oddometer: 1,026
Hammered Valve Stems

Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn View Post
Do you have any kind of reference from a mfg or other authority?

I'm just surprised by how little hard information there is on this subject.

- Mark
Every shim kit currently for sale lists hardening in the description

Here's a post from a machinists forum I just looked up

As from manufacturer/authority, yes. I've gone to Tech training courses provided by motorcycle manufacturers, apprenticed @ MegaCycle Cams, worked at a shop where we prototyped & repaired cylinder head/valve systems for manufacturers, and have been reading the publications of machinists journals & trade industry newsletters for years. And that's just me. The people I ride with & talk to work for NWI, DARPA, JPL as well as a gear maker from Switzerland whose company provides the machinery for Toyota & GM among others to grind & harden all their transmission gears.

There is no fight. Just trying to keep mis-information from becoming "internet fact". This forum above all others is (to me) full of the right spirit. When there's something I actually know about I'll contribute- otherwise I read what others are saying & try to pick up the right info from it. As a high-mileage KLR owner I can tell you I don't waste my time on any of the forums dedicated to that bike- too many idiots; too confrontational. If KLR forums are bad, try something gun-related. Too much ego over information.

Long Live Orange Crush

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peanuts View Post
Using 2 blades on top of each other is sometimes better than just one thick blade as the combination will flex easier around the cam/bucket area. If you use just one thick blade you can be tricked into interpretting the force required to flex the blade as a tight sliding fit.
To be sure you come up with more precise measurements by adding blades, that's why buying a quality set with all the low numbers covered is best. Right now Snap-Ons best set is $13.45 retail and contains 35 blades.

Not sure what you mean about bend/flex? I always feel the tension on the blade(s) as I remove them from the gap, not pushing the blade(s) into it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peanuts View Post
I have seen the top of the valve stem bruised so much that the edge had to be ground to allow it to pass through the valve guide.
Ha Ha yeah with some of the modern heads it's hard to get in there to do that job. People who don't work on them for a living don't get to see all the crazy stuff people "do" to their bikes. At the shop & at the home garage I have a "Hall Of Shame" of failed parts that I keep on display to encourage discussion
__________________
Britt
'06 KTM 950 Adv 'S'
'03 KTM 250 EXC
'87 KLR650 - <200K miles "Like the Energizer Bunny, just keeps going & going..."
geometrician is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 03:56 PM   #34
markjenn
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Swellvue, WA
Oddometer: 10,365
Quote:
Originally Posted by geometrician View Post
As from manufacturer/authority, yes. I've gone to Tech training courses provided by motorcycle manufacturers, apprenticed @ MegaCycle Cams, worked at a shop where we prototyped & repaired cylinder head/valve systems for manufacturers, and have been reading the publications of machinists journals & trade industry newsletters for years. And that's just me. The people I ride with & talk to work for NWI, DARPA, JPL as well as a gear maker from Switzerland whose company provides the machinery for Toyota & GM among others to grind & harden all their transmission gears.
All well and good, but when the day is done, all you're doing is what I've seen tens of others do on forums of all sorts - say "they know" but can't quote an authoritative source.

- Mark
markjenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 04:40 PM   #35
triplenickel
Beastly Adventurer
 
triplenickel's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Campbell River, BC. Fantasy Island
Oddometer: 2,424
Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn View Post
All well and good, but when the day is done, all you're doing is what I've seen tens of others do on forums of all sorts - say "they know" but can't quote an authoritative source.

- Mark

Ummm that's kinda what forums are all about, have you considered taking the initiative to contact manufacturers yourself? Otherwise you'll probably just question whether someone else did even if they claim to have. Get some literature for us all to see.
__________________
07 SE

PG007
"Up there where you eat moose-cock you must all be rockets scientists."
triplenickel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 07:49 PM   #36
markjenn
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Swellvue, WA
Oddometer: 10,365
Quote:
Originally Posted by triplenickel View Post
Ummm that's kinda what forums are all about, have you considered taking the initiative to contact manufacturers yourself? Otherwise you'll probably just question whether someone else did even if they claim to have. Get some literature for us all to see.
All I've said is that there is a lack of hard information. I don't claim to know the answers like some do.

- Mark
markjenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 08:18 PM   #37
triplenickel
Beastly Adventurer
 
triplenickel's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Campbell River, BC. Fantasy Island
Oddometer: 2,424
Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn View Post
All I've said is that there is a lack of hard information. I don't claim to know the answers like some do.

- Mark

I understand what you were saying, I was suggesting if you weren't happy with the answers you got perhaps the source would be another choice.
__________________
07 SE

PG007
"Up there where you eat moose-cock you must all be rockets scientists."
triplenickel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2012, 02:48 AM   #38
Peanuts
Beastly Adventurer
 
Peanuts's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: UK
Oddometer: 1,531
Quote:
Originally Posted by geometrician View Post

Not sure what you mean about bend/flex? I always feel the tension on the blade(s) as I remove them from the gap, not pushing the blade(s) into it.
Because the laminate of gauges are more flexible than one gauge. They bend around the cam lobe easier and give a more accurate feel.
Peanuts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2012, 08:47 AM   #39
Steveman
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Steveman's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2011
Location: Austria
Oddometer: 471
Quote:
Originally Posted by geometrician View Post

I've taken out shims on customer bikes (esp the 250, 350, 400, 450, 500, 530, 690 engines metioned above) with such a depression hammered into them from the top of the valve stem they are unusable. They do, indeed, wear. .
This is 100% what I have experienced when talking about KTM engines with one overhead camshaft. No experience with the new designed dohc engine of the 350 yet, but for all others what you say is definitely right. I talked to so many smart guys telling me that shims dont wear but I personally have experienced the contrary.

I also can confirm, that with the config of KTM engines where no bucket is used and the rocker arm is in contact with the shim the engine speeds are the factor. While the valve clearence on bikes used from hobby riders almost keeps constant the valve clearance of bikes revved hard and used in competition needs to be corrected every 10 to 15 hours.
Thus I can say that two myths concering ohc engines with shims are wrong: valve clearance on ohc engines always changes in one direction (tighter) only - wrong. Ohc engines once broke in and re adjusted dont need valve checks as the clearance stays constant - also wrong.

regards
Steve
Steveman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 12:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014