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Old 04-30-2013, 12:16 PM   #151
Off Road Ryder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genka View Post
What is the patent number you mentioned? It happens that Chinese copy a US design and sell it domestically and abroad, but these lights are sold by at least 3 US "Brand name" companies and some nameless ones. You can't find fake Rolexes in US stores. I could only compare my light to Denali, and the similarities are striking. They will even mate together, it can't be a coincidence. You also mentioned that your lights are operating at constant voltage. But the correct way to drive LEDs is by a stable current. I'm pretty sure that the light I bought is current driven, that large resistor marked R075 is a good indicator. I don't see a temperature sensor, most likely it is on the other side of the board. So far I couldn't find any shortcuts and compromises in the design. You suggested that that LED efficacy (binning) may be different. According to the Cree datasheet above, the output difference between the highest and the lowest bins of XM-Ls is about 10%, hardly a significant number, considering a +-7% tolerance within each bin. May be you can post a picture of your NXG disassembled and point out the differences.

An emitter does not make a light. Plain and simple. Much more goes into an LEd than what emitter it might be running.
I certainly can provide a patent # but really dont see the point.
The fact is that the particular light that is shown here is a flat out rip off. Others will deal with the vendors.
How about a link where you purchased the knockoff light from?
PM would be great.
Its very easy for those that know what they are looking at to recognize the difference,yet almost impossible for the layman to tell. How would you know if there are shortcuts or not?
The original was designed and made by VisionX co branded by Cyclops .Twisted throttle,Maglight and a few other select distributors.
Like Twisted throttle we offer a turn key solution to motorcycle lighting needs. We stand behind our products with lifetime warranties, and customer service second to none. I take pride in being a No BS person, that translates to our companies values and customer support.
I cant change your mind, no matter what I might say.
You will need the experience and a comparison to other quality lights to make a true assessment.
One thing I have noticed since offering our products on ADV Rider is that riders will get a cheap light then Rave about it, soon many have failures or issues, but never come back and say anything about that? Human nature.. I think so.
You get what you pay for, no ones getting rich here.
I wont comment on this thread any longer. Happy to answer any Q's in our vendors thread.
I wish you luck.
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Old 04-30-2013, 12:35 PM   #152
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Here are the images you requested:





One thing I never noticed that even the little bolts that hold the lens cover on have washers and thread locker. Another cool little bit that doesn't NEED to be done but makes for a better, more reliable products.

Kev
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Old 04-30-2013, 12:48 PM   #153
genka
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Originally Posted by twistedthrottle View Post
I believe I just addressed the differences. Please take a look at post #147

I cannot be more specific than that without testing a set of lights you feel are the same. Yes, they are similar in that they are the same shape and do emit light. That is where the similarities end.
Well, this is what I call a vague response. You alleged that somehow produce less light. I don't think this is the case because Chinese lights use the same LEDs, draw the same current and have a good quality driver circuitry. I have yet to see a single fact proving that the brand name lights are different. Quite possible all of them are made on the same factory.

I agree that you include a lot more value in form of the harness, warranty, etc- I mentioned it myself few posts earlier. I'm discussing the lights themselves, not a complete solution.
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Old 04-30-2013, 01:01 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by twistedthrottle View Post
Here are the images you requested:

Kev
Kevin,
Thanks, this is exactly what I wanted. The driver circuitry is on the other side of the board, so I can't comment on it, but it is clear that the light is different. The LED there looks like one from Seoul Semiconductor http://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%20...tor/W724C0.pdf rather than Cree.
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Old 04-30-2013, 01:33 PM   #155
genka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops Motorsports View Post
An emitter does not make a light. Plain and simple. Much more goes into an LEd than what emitter it might be running.
I certainly can provide a patent # but really dont see the point.
So why mention the patent if you were not going to provide it?
[/QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops Motorsports View Post
The fact is that the particular light that is shown here is a flat out rip off.
Others will deal with the vendors.
How about a link where you purchased the knockoff light from?
PM would be great.
I bought that light from China. I can PM you the exact link, but these lights are sold all over the Internet from US and foreign vendors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops Motorsports View Post
Its very easy for those that know what they are looking at to recognize the difference,yet almost impossible for the layman to tell. How would you know if there are shortcuts or not?
The original was designed and made by VisionX co branded by Cyclops .Twisted throttle,Maglight and a few other select distributors.
I have a degree in electrical engineering and spent many years working with electronics. It is not always easy to distinguish qaulity just by looking at the circuit board, but some conclusions can be made. And so far the lights seem to be decent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops Motorsports View Post
Like Twisted throttle we offer a turn key solution to motorcycle lighting needs. We stand behind our products with lifetime warranties, and customer service second to none. I take pride in being a No BS person, that translates to our companies values and customer support.
I cant change your mind, no matter what I might say.
You will need the experience and a comparison to other quality lights to make a true assessment.
One thing I have noticed since offering our products on ADV Rider is that riders will get a cheap light then Rave about it, soon many have failures or issues, but never come back and say anything about that? Human nature.. I think so.
You get what you pay for, no ones getting rich here.
I wont comment on this thread any longer. Happy to answer any Q's in our vendors thread.
I wish you luck.
Look, I didn't really want to discuss other products in your vendor thread and this is why I'm here, where people discuss cheap lights. I know there are trade-off, they've been mentioned many times here.
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Old 04-30-2013, 03:14 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genka View Post
Well, this is what I call a vague response. You alleged that somehow produce less light. I don't think this is the case because Chinese lights use the same LEDs, draw the same current and have a good quality driver circuitry. I have yet to see a single fact proving that the brand name lights are different. Quite possible all of them are made on the same factory.

I agree that you include a lot more value in form of the harness, warranty, etc- I mentioned it myself few posts earlier. I'm discussing the lights themselves, not a complete solution.
The Denali lights are made in South Korea.

If you would like to test a set of the cheap Chinese lights send them here to my attention and I will be happy to run the Lux test, publish honest results and return them to you. If you are in the Northeast - come on up and see us. We can do it together.

Kevin
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Old 04-30-2013, 03:24 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedthrottle View Post
The Denali lights are made in South Korea.

If you would like to test a set of the cheap Chinese lights send them here to my attention and I will be happy to run the Lux test, publish honest results and return them to you. If you are in the Northeast - come on up and see us. We can do it together.

Kevin
I have done some side by side testing of various LED, HID and other lights for motorcycles.

That statement above is what makes one vendor a step above others, I hope he takes you up on the offer and you get to do the test and share the results.
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:28 PM   #158
genka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedthrottle View Post
The Denali lights are made in South Korea.

If you would like to test a set of the cheap Chinese lights send them here to my attention and I will be happy to run the Lux test, publish honest results and return them to you. If you are in the Northeast - come on up and see us. We can do it together.

Kevin
Kevin, this is a generous offer, but I'm not sure that comparing the light output is a straightforward task. In your earlier post you stated that 1 Lux distance for R1200GS low lbeam was 88 feet and for high beam it was 153. feet. in that bike both high and low lights use exactly the same H7 bulbs and their light output is the same, but the light distribution is different and it explains the readings. The Chinese light i have has a reflector for a long and narrow "pencil" beam. Your lights are equipped with a diffuser that spreads the light around. Both Cree XM-L and Seoul Semiconductor Z7 10Watt LEDs have roughly the same output. The focused beam of the Chinese light will illuminate further, but at the expense of the area coverage. Proper evaluation of lightning performance requires a proper lab setup and test equipment, otherwise the numbers are meaningless. Electrical characteristics are easier to interpret and they are what I go by.
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:47 AM   #159
twistedthrottle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genka View Post
Kevin, this is a generous offer, but I'm not sure that comparing the light output is a straightforward task. In your earlier post you stated that 1 Lux distance for R1200GS low lbeam was 88 feet and for high beam it was 153. feet. in that bike both high and low lights use exactly the same H7 bulbs and their light output is the same, but the light distribution is different and it explains the readings. The Chinese light i have has a reflector for a long and narrow "pencil" beam. Your lights are equipped with a diffuser that spreads the light around. Both Cree XM-L and Seoul Semiconductor Z7 10Watt LEDs have roughly the same output. The focused beam of the Chinese light will illuminate further, but at the expense of the area coverage. Proper evaluation of lightning performance requires a proper lab setup and test equipment, otherwise the numbers are meaningless. Electrical characteristics are easier to interpret and they are what I go by.
Thank you for the explanation. I have independent lab (simplified) results posted on the product page if you would like to look at them. I can locate the full results if you would like to look at them as well. Twisted Throttle will not be spending money to have competitors lights tested. We have built our business on the idea that the best way to sell a product is not to speak badly of the competitors goods. I think I am close to that line right now and will not be participating in a public debate.

We could keep this dance going for months. I am certain that the Denali light is far superior to the knockoffs and you're convinced otherwise. We will never find common ground on this. I wish you the best.

Kevin
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:15 AM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genka View Post
Kevin, this is a generous offer, but I'm not sure that comparing the light output is a straightforward task. In your earlier post you stated that 1 Lux distance for R1200GS low lbeam was 88 feet and for high beam it was 153. feet. in that bike both high and low lights use exactly the same H7 bulbs and their light output is the same, but the light distribution is different and it explains the readings. The Chinese light i have has a reflector for a long and narrow "pencil" beam. Your lights are equipped with a diffuser that spreads the light around. Both Cree XM-L and Seoul Semiconductor Z7 10Watt LEDs have roughly the same output. The focused beam of the Chinese light will illuminate further, but at the expense of the area coverage. Proper evaluation of lightning performance requires a proper lab setup and test equipment, otherwise the numbers are meaningless. Electrical characteristics are easier to interpret and they are what I go by.
I think you don't spend enough time riding. If you're happy with your chinese lights, hit the road and enjoy. If your point is that these vendors are ripping us off, then make the point. For me, the lighting characteristics of lights are easy to interpret and are what I go by. And how durable under harsh conditions those lighting characteristics are is also what I go by.
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:39 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by Maoule View Post
I think you don't spend enough time riding. If you're happy with your chinese lights, hit the road and enjoy. If your point is that these vendors are ripping us off, then make the point. For me, the lighting characteristics of lights are easy to interpret and are what I go by. And how durable under harsh conditions those lighting characteristics are is also what I go by.
Guys, look back at the thread title. Gene was simply saying that he found what he thinks are good lights that resemble other people's lights for a good price. As the OP I never intended to bash anyone's lights, I was just looking for an inexpensive solution (which I found) to getting some decent light down the road.

Let's not take this off into a thread about price over quality by vendors and people looking to make vendors look bad. That was not the intent.

Maoule, Gene rides, and he rides a lot. He is also very intelligent. Though it is not obvious here, he is not from the US, so he might come across a little differently than some of us, though it looked like he wasn't being intentionally slanderous to me.

As I mentioned, I have seen the lights Gene is looking at, and we put them literally side-by-side with some Solstice, or Denali lights, I can't remember which, and they were virtually identical on the outside. That is what got this going last Saturday at my tech day.

Anyhow, let's all just try to stay calm and carry on. This thread has some very good information in it, and I think Gene and Kevin, and the other vendor(s) carried themselves with dignity and put up very good points.

Jim
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Old 05-01-2013, 02:35 PM   #162
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Jim, thanks! If you think my Engrish is hard to understand, try e-mailing Chinese sellers with questions about their wares
I too feel that this thread went into direction no one intended, let me address the accusations.
I like buying gadgets from China and consider it an inexpensive entertainment. Some of them are good, others are complete junk. When I came across the light we were discussing I noticed how similar it was to the lights sold by the vendors here. I thought that the "brand name" lights were OEMd in China based on a variety of designs offered by Chinese, see an example in post 138. It was a legitimate suggestion, and if Cyclops or TT didn't like it, they could ignore or rebuff. At the end Kevin showed the internals of his light and everyone could see that the electronics was different. That was it, I was wrong and have no problem admitting it. I have never suggested that this Chinese light was better than Cyclops or TT. I just voiced my personal opinion that the Chinese light was of a decent quality and I explained why. I also never accused vendors of rip-off, in fact several times I mentioned how much value they add. They offer a complete consumer ready solution, the light I bought is a part of DIY project. I also have no vested interest in that light, you probably noticed that I didn't even provide a link to the store I bought it from.
I have purchased products from TT, spoke to them on shows and rallies and they have been open on what their products can or can not do.
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Old 05-01-2013, 06:19 PM   #163
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I also was looking at the title of the thread and, because I'm in the market for aux lights, was wondering if Gene's lengthy posts were going come up with a recommendation. I went back and didn't find much other than chinese lights...sorry for my impatience, but where do I get these chinese lights? Sorry if I misunderstood the posts but, to me, they were starting to have a bit of a gotcha tone. So, my bad...I'll shut up and listen
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:06 PM   #164
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I don't want to give a direct link to avoid further accusations, but if you google "10W Cree LED Work Light" you'll find a plenty of places selling similar lights. I purchased that particular light simply because the seller put it on a no reserve auction and I snapped it cheap. I ordered another light and will install them on my bike and evaluate their performance in the real life.
Just today I found another interesting light



http://www.ebay.com/itm/360647781962

Note the vertical beads on the glass. This light might actually produce a wide flat beam more fitting for the road use.
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Old 05-03-2013, 06:00 PM   #165
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Another example of a lookalike...http://www.superbrightleds.com/morei...rk-light/1386/
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