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Old 01-10-2013, 04:22 PM   #196
Navin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gham View Post
Yes they were!!!! I had a 79 and it was so undesirable I left the bastard in Alabama when I moved.Finders keepers!

Why some among us want the new moto market to better reflect that of a 3rd World nation I have no idea! I remember the uber deseriable bikes they wouldn't import but they sent us "these". Ugh!

Navin screwed with this post 01-11-2013 at 11:33 AM
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Old 01-11-2013, 06:02 AM   #197
NJ-Brett
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Because they have the bikes some of us want.
Simple, light, low cost, good economy, practical.
Most of the bikes like the sr400 and the cb400ss are only sold in Japan, hardly a 3rd world country.
I suppose, in Japan, not a lot of people buy cb1500rrr type bikes, but TU250's, sr400's and other vintage looking bikes sell, as do Harley's.

If I could have a collection of bikes in my Garage, I would want a TU250, an sr400, a cb400ss, a V7 classic, a w650, along with some older standard bikes, and I would not have one modern abs, traction control, water cooled wonderbike.

I think smaller standards are also popular in Europe, and people even tour on smaller bikes, plus the vintage thing has always been big in England.

These type of bikes tend to be light and comfortable, cheap and fun, with real seats and the ability to mount a rack and carry a passenger in some comfort.
Contrast the new cb250 or 300 ninja, useless seats, no way to carry stuff without mods, loads of plastic to remove to service, valves may use shims, over weight for the size, uncomfortable riding position unless racing.

Some people will trade everything for performance, and others want a good all around bike.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Navin View Post
Why some among us want the new moto market to better reflect that of a 3rd World nation I have no idea! I remember the uber deseriable bikes they wuoldn't import but they sent us "these". Ugh!
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Old 01-11-2013, 06:07 AM   #198
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Originally Posted by NJ-Brett View Post
Because they have the bikes some of us want.
Simple, light, low cost, good economy, practical.
Most of the bikes like the sr400 and the cb400ss are only sold in Japan, hardly a 3rd world country.
I suppose, in Japan, not a lot of people buy cb1500rrr type bikes, but TU250's, sr400's and other vintage looking bikes sell, as do Harley's.

If I could have a collection of bikes in my Garage, I would want a TU250, an sr400, a cb400ss, a V7 classic, a w650, along with some older standard bikes, and I would not have one modern abs, traction control, water cooled wonderbike.

I think smaller standards are also popular in Europe, and people even tour on smaller bikes, plus the vintage thing has always been big in England.

These type of bikes tend to be light and comfortable, cheap and fun, with real seats and the ability to mount a rack and carry a passenger in some comfort.
Contrast the new cb250 or 300 ninja, useless seats, no way to carry stuff without mods, loads of plastic to remove to service, valves may use shims, over weight for the size, uncomfortable riding position unless racing.

Some people will trade everything for performance, and others want a good all around bike.
Exactly - Well said
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:45 AM   #199
Navin
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Originally Posted by NJ-Brett View Post
Because they have the bikes some of us want.
Simple, light, low cost, good economy, practical.
Most of the bikes like the sr400 and the cb400ss are only sold in Japan, hardly a 3rd world country.
I suppose, in Japan, not a lot of people buy cb1500rrr type bikes, but TU250's, sr400's and other vintage looking bikes sell, as do Harley's.

If I could have a collection of bikes in my Garage, I would want a TU250, an sr400, a cb400ss, a V7 classic, a w650, along with some older standard bikes, and I would not have one modern abs, traction control, water cooled wonderbike.

I think smaller standards are also popular in Europe, and people even tour on smaller bikes, plus the vintage thing has always been big in England.

These type of bikes tend to be light and comfortable, cheap and fun, with real seats and the ability to mount a rack and carry a passenger in some comfort.
Contrast the new cb250 or 300 ninja, useless seats, no way to carry stuff without mods, loads of plastic to remove to service, valves may use shims, over weight for the size, uncomfortable riding position unless racing.

Some people will trade everything for performance, and others want a good all around bike.

A Ninja 300 is a standard. It trades nothing in seating position for performance. Yes, it has fairings, and it "looks" racey, but truth be told, you could ride it a lifetime with oil changes and probably never need a valve adjustment or to pull the 10 bolts to strip the plastics. The shim over bucket is effective and cheap to produce. Cheap is one of your wishes, right? They also stay in adjustment much better, less weight slamming around is a good thing!

Mods to carry stuff? I recall adding a rack to my 1976 RD400 to carry stuff, I just did the same for my 2013 300 and every bike between them. Of course I could have just bungeed a bag to the rear seat too.

Get off my lawn.
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Old 01-11-2013, 05:08 PM   #200
NJ-Brett
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I think its over weight at 380 pounds, and my wife would never sit on that seat.
And a luggage rack would likely look silly, if they even make one.
It also gets 60 mpg which seems very low...




Quote:
Originally Posted by Navin View Post
A Ninja 300 is a standard. It trades nothing in seating position for performance. Yes, it has fairings, and it "looks" racey, but truth be told, you could ride it a lifetime with oil changes and probably never need a valve adjustment or to pull the 10 bolts to strip the plastics. The shim over bucket is effective and cheap to produce. Cheap is one of your wishes, right? They also stay in adjustment much better, less weight slamming around is a good thing!

Mods to carry stuff? I recall adding a rack to my 1976 RD400 to carry stuff, I just did the same for my 2013 300 and every bike between them. Of course I could have just bungeed a bag to the rear seat too.

Get off my lawn.
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Old 01-11-2013, 05:24 PM   #201
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And you think a SR400 will be light? A luggage rack looks like a luggage rack and a seat can be modded to be better if it even needs to be. So far after a few hours with a passenger, no complaints. In your golden years I fear your memory isn't quite that clear about the bikes of the 70s!

The 300 has gone 104 MPG in a press contest but then you'd have to ride it like an old man so no thanks!
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Old 01-11-2013, 05:37 PM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navin View Post
Why some among us want the new moto market to better reflect that of a 3rd World nation I have no idea! I remember the uber deseriable bikes they wouldn't import but they sent us "these". Ugh!
I want this bike for several reasons. Number one is because it looks like what I think a motorcycle should look like. Number two is because it's a thumper. Number three is because it is small enough to handle great around town, still big enough to ride on the freeway (I would rather it be a 500cc) Number four is because it has a kickstarter, a centerstand, and tubeless tires, and does not have ABS. And number five is because it appears to have a true standard riding position, not the lean forward rearset pegs position of a Ninja 300 (I sold a Ninja 500, which most consider a standard, because it was to painful to ride any distance. It was definitely NOT the standard riding position I remember from late '70s/early '80s Japanese bikes. I specifically remember a 1978 Suzuki GS750 standard that had a very comfortable riding position, and it was no cruiser. About the only thing I don't like about this bike is the FI, but if everything else stayed the same, I'd still buy it on the spot.

As for vintage SR500s, I would have bought one new, but couldn't afford it at the time. Now they have become collectors items, and one in decent condition costs a fortune. But the big problem is a lack of easily available parts. It is such an easy bike to work on, it could be kept going forever is parts were available.

As for the "third world country", the Royal Enfield is a third world country bike, and look what they cost. And they must sell, because nobody will deal on one. And they are nowhere near as reliable as the Yamaha would be. Then look at HD. They use technology older than any Japanese company, yet look how well they are doing.

To some, like me, the Japanese no longer make anything resembling real motorcycles. The Honda CB500 series is about the ugliest thing I've ever seen. I take one look at them and immediately go YUK!! There are some exceptions. The Suzuki TU250, the Honda CB1100, and several cruisers. I have ridden cruisers most of my life, and admit I like them. But todays Japanese cruisers seem to be nothing but copies of Harleys, which I also like. But I would prefer to buy the real thing instead of a copy. The TU250 is too small, I am seriously considering the CB1100. After tax refund time I could pay cash for one. But I can't make that decision until I find out what the riding position is like. I may wind up going with another cruiser, unless someone does import something like this Yamaha.
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Old 01-11-2013, 05:50 PM   #203
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I'll keep an eye on the 2 SR500s on ebay right now and let ya know what they sell for. Maybe they will break $5k? Maybe not?

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Old 01-11-2013, 11:26 PM   #204
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The well-worn points Brett and Jerry keep making are valid, but like the saying goes you trap more flies with honey than vinegar and their preachy tones tend to overlay the validity of the points, and preaching alienates. I like the idea of the brand new SR for same reasons as the nagging twins, while recognizing ours is a niche market. However I also see value in the transformer type bikes that don't appeal to me. Mind you, if I got a ten thousand dollar refund from Uncle Sam, first I'd spank myself liberally for over paying this year then I'd run down to the Honda shop and get an ABS free CB1100. Whoa! What about the Kawasaki Ninja 1000 with saddlebags? Hmm...It really is uncomfortable sitting on the fence!
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:43 PM   #205
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It's cool to see the 250-500cc segment starting to fill back in with new models. This was once a very popular size of bike and has been neglected for a while.

These bikes, in both on and off road forms, can do just about everything anyone ever needs with a motorcycle with the exception of cruising long distances at interstate highway speeds. IMO that's about the most boring thing anyone can do on a bike anyway. If you mostly avoid long streetches of superslab, then a bike that can cruise comfortably at 65 or so with a bit to spare is all you need, and it only takes about 15-20 HP to manage that.

Sticking to singles and twins keeps these bikes fairly simple and their weight (mostly under 400 lbs.) makes them tons of fun on winding secondary roads where they can keep up with traffic. They're also mostly economical to buy and run which makes them practical everyday transportation.

I love the retro look on the Yamaha SR400 and Suzuki TU250 and hope it isn't just a fad. To me, if you can't see the engine and most of the mechanical components it isn't a real motorcycle. And I can't see why any bike up to 500cc ever needs the added weight and complexity of an electric starter.
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Old 01-12-2013, 12:13 AM   #206
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And don't forget it really is more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slowly.
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Old 01-12-2013, 01:57 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by Bud Tugly View Post
It's cool to see the 250-500cc segment starting to fill back in with new models. This was once a very popular size of bike and has been neglected for a while.

These bikes, in both on and off road forms, can do just about everything anyone ever needs with a motorcycle with the exception of cruising long distances at interstate highway speeds. IMO that's about the most boring thing anyone can do on a bike anyway. If you mostly avoid long streetches of superslab, then a bike that can cruise comfortably at 65 or so with a bit to spare is all you need, and it only takes about 15-20 HP to manage that.

Sticking to singles and twins keeps these bikes fairly simple and their weight (mostly under 400 lbs.) makes them tons of fun on winding secondary roads where they can keep up with traffic. They're also mostly economical to buy and run which makes them practical everyday transportation.

I love the retro look on the Yamaha SR400 and Suzuki TU250 and hope it isn't just a fad. To me, if you can't see the engine and most of the mechanical components it isn't a real motorcycle. And I can't see why any bike up to 500cc ever needs the added weight and complexity of an electric starter.
I had a 2006 suzuki gz250 which I put 11,000 miles on in 6 months, include 2000 mile trip on the interstate-no problem.
I never want an exclusive kick start, even on a small bike. You must be young if you cant see why anyone needs an electric start on a small bike. I am 54 years old and even on a small cc bike, my knees would be killing me if I kick started any bike. Our joints wear out as we get older, even if we work out, knees are shot. I have no problem holding up my 500+ lb cruiser but my knees would be screaming if I even had to kick start a 90 cc bike.
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Old 01-12-2013, 02:11 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by Davidc83 View Post
I never want an exclusive kick start, even on a small bike. You must be young if you cant see why anyone needs an electric start on a small bike. I am 54 years old and even on a small cc bike, my knees would be killing me if I kick started any bike. Our joints wear out as we get older, even if we work out, knees are shot. I have no problem holding up my 500+ lb cruiser but my knees would be screaming if I even had to kick start a 90 cc bike.
I'm only 4 years younger than you and have had no problem kick starting my '77 XT500 for the last 3 years. Even when it decides to be "ornery", it's still not a problem - I run out of breath long before my knees hurt. Heck, even my 79 year old riding buddy can still kickstart the one bike he has so equipped (BMW R60/2).
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Old 01-12-2013, 02:14 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by Bud Tugly View Post
And I can't see why any bike up to 500cc ever needs the added weight and complexity of an electric starter.
Since this seems to be such a big deal to the defenders of kick start, I have to ask: just how much does an electric starter weight?
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Old 01-12-2013, 02:40 PM   #210
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Since this seems to be such a big deal to the defenders of kick start, I have to ask: just how much does an electric starter weight?

Nothing. The current KTM 450SXf under Dungey in SX has an air spring shock and E-start only and is rumored to be the lightest bike on the gate.

Older KTM/DRZ DS singles commonly added at least 14 lbs to add E-start. Once you delete the kicker, gears, springs and case accomodations the weight difference is negligible, if at all.
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