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Old 12-18-2012, 07:06 AM   #16
newcastleadam
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Originally Posted by Philip Kuntz View Post
In short, no. When restrictions are proposed, these things fly off the shelves. Obama and Dems are the best gun sales team ever. We can barely find any ammo for our guns since he got re-elected. Americans are afraid, and are buying it all up.
As a corollary, the NRA does no favors by using the "executive action is being signed, cops will take your guns" mantra and whipping everyone up into a buying frenzy, causing a bubble that only favors manufacturers and retailers.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:17 AM   #17
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568V8-

Well, you'll hear a good number of politicians (most left leaning) state that nobody needs an AR15 for hunting. Simply put, the 2nd Amendment wasn't put in place to ensure our rights to hunt, or engage in shooting sports. It was put in place to ensure that the citizens had the means necessary to resist gov't if it became oppressive.

A lot of folks are uncomfortable with that idea, but it is the plain truth. Dozens of quotes from various writings by the Founding Fathers and other important political figures of the time make clear their common belief in the citizens' right to arm themselves; they also detailed the responsibility to revolt against gov't when it became tyrannical. Just read our Declaration of Independence.

Another argument: "the Founding Fathers had no idea there would ever be such powerful weaponry." Baloney. Ordinary private citizens owned the most powerful peices of firepower available at the time: cannons. By the dozens. And they armed their private merchant vessels with them.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:19 AM   #18
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Something that comes up often in these types of discussions are automatic firearms. Let's be clear, the only way to legally own one is to purchase a tax stamp from the ATF (one per firearm). They are already heavily regulated, and supply is very limited as no automatic/burst capable firearms are available newer than May 1986. As the owner needs a stamp for each firearm, it is not something you can buy in a parking lot or "gun show loophole" unless you are already in the ATF's books and do the appropriate transfer paperwork. Again, we're talking legally, which is how this discussion should be focused.

Best,
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:48 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by East Coast Rider View Post
568V8-

Well, you'll hear a good number of politicians (most left leaning) state that nobody needs an AR15 for hunting. Simply put, the 2nd Amendment wasn't put in place to ensure our rights to hunt, or engage in shooting sports. It was put in place to ensure that the citizens had the means necessary to resist gov't if it became oppressive.

A lot of folks are uncomfortable with that idea, but it is the plain truth. Dozens of quotes from various writings by the Founding Fathers and other important political figures of the time make clear their common belief in the citizens' right to arm themselves; they also detailed the responsibility to revolt against gov't when it became tyrannical. Just read our Declaration of Independence.

Another argument: "the Founding Fathers had no idea there would ever be such powerful weaponry." Baloney. Ordinary private citizens owned the most powerful peices of firepower available at the time: cannons. By the dozens. And they armed their private merchant vessels with them.
Well said.


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Old 12-18-2012, 07:52 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by newcastleadam View Post
Something that comes up often in these types of discussions are automatic firearms. Let's be clear, the only way to legally own one is to purchase a tax stamp from the ATF (one per firearm). They are already heavily regulated, and supply is very limited as no automatic/burst capable firearms are available newer than May 1986. As the owner needs a stamp for each firearm, it is not something you can buy in a parking lot or "gun show loophole" unless you are already in the ATF's books and do the appropriate transfer paperwork. Again, we're talking legally, which is how this discussion should be focused.

Best,
Having gone through this process myself twice this year I can tell you that what once was a 30-60 day wait for the tax stamp is now over five months. Longer in some cases.
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Old 12-18-2012, 08:50 AM   #21
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If you restrict the amount of ammo per mag, then people will just buy more mags. Why make it illegal for me to own a 33 round clip? I'll just buy three 10 round clips. What's the difference, 2 seconds?

I still believe that everybody should have a gun at all times. Every mass shooting would have fewer victims.
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:13 AM   #22
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Ive always wondered what people would do if the Government actually did decide it was time to relieve us of our firearms.
Personally, I think we need to restrict what the media decides to put on air, especially when it's speculation, traumatized children ect.
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:19 AM   #23
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Personally, I think we need to restrict what the media decides to put on air, especially when it's speculation, traumatized children ect.
You'd tweak the First Amendment to aid the 2nd?
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:20 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by 568V8 View Post
I'm a Canadian, not a hunter and never owned a gun. So I don't have a very broad perspective on the issue.
But I do question why automatic and semi automatic weapons capable of firing hundreds or rounds are needed by an average citizen.
Wouldn't it make sense, at least as a way to help prevent some horrific crimes, to restrict or control the sale of these weapons and their required ammunition and magazines?
uh...NO. Let's start with enforcing the laws we have already have, and also point out that it was kind of irresponsible to have these weapons in a household where an individual had questionable personality traits.

FYI, these types of guns are the preferred weapon locally for hunting wild hogs (a non indigenous nuisance animal) and do so very well. But you will not hear any of that in the MSM.

I respect your disclaimer, but given your "perspective" it would be like somebody that has never owned or ridden a motorcycle telling you that you could not own or use a particular type/brand of motorcycle because they felt it was too fast and dangerous.
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brewmann screwed with this post 12-18-2012 at 10:10 AM
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:22 AM   #25
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Let everyone carry at work

Including teachers
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:23 AM   #26
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let everyone carry at work

including teachers
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:30 AM   #27
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No amount of regulation will do any good whatsoever

It would only affect legal reported gun sales

Certainly not someone taking a gun from somebody else

Or buying one from an individual

At best make peeps responsible for what happens to the guns they buy new

But there's already so many out there that even this would not help much

Certainly wouldn't do anything about all the guns with no paper
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:32 AM   #28
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Take for instance a gun dealer who bought guns and tens of thousands of rounds of ammo twenty years ago

And then let their license expire without ever filing paperwork on such
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:18 AM   #29
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I meant as if people want to change Amendments that do harm, the media crucifies, lies and is biased.
Didn't mean to make it seem I was willing to change one in light for another.
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:24 AM   #30
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A LITTLE GUN HISTORY
In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. >From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated
In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total...of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated
Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975
to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.
You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.
Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.
Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!
The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.
With guns, we are 'citizens'. Without them, we are 'subjects'.
During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED!
If you value your freedom, please spread this antigun-control message to all of your friends.
SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN!
SWITZERLAND'S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY
ADULT THEY ISSUE A RIFLE.
SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!
IT'S A NO BRAINER!
DON'T LET OUR GOVERNMENT WASTE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX DOLLARS IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE ALL LAW ABIDING CITIZENS AN EASY TARGET.
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