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Old 12-19-2012, 06:45 AM   #61
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I think this is funny, from the link above:
"We don’t hear of mass deaths of children in school fires these days: fire drills have long since been commonplace, led by trained school staff, not to mention sprinkler systems and smoke alarms and strategically placed fire extinguishers that can nip a blaze in the bud while firefighters are en route."

Is there anything more regulated, more bureaucratically entangled than fire regulations? Jeebus, the house I just bought has these annoying smoke detectors that go off at the first whiff of cooking anything. And all the electrical outlets are of some new kind that detect any kind of variation in current and shut all the breakers off. Can't run a fucking vacuum cleaner without resetting the breakers twice. The guy who did all the electrical in the house just put his hands up and said, "I gotta install 'em. It's the law." He did offer to come back and put the old style in for me after the fact.

I can't even imagine how regulated such things must be for schools.
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Old 12-19-2012, 06:51 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Philip Kuntz View Post
In short, no. When restrictions are proposed, these things fly off the shelves. Obama and Dems are the best gun sales team ever. We can barely find any ammo for our guns since he got re-elected. Americans are afraid, and are buying it all up.
"Americans are afraid" That's a key statement.
People scared of their own shadow need a lot of armament just to walk around day to day. They tend to think more guns will solve any school shooting problems,arm the teachers,hell,arm every child,arm the bus drivers,arm the crossing gaurds. We can have daily shootout practice instead of soccer practice.

Sweden has low gun crime because they have different ways of educating and raising their children,America? Many kids raise themselves while their parents work multiple jobs to buy more houses and toys,or just to feed themselves.

Guns are instant gratification for a shooter,what ever happens,happens right now once the trigger starts getting pulled.
Fast food,fast cars,fast moving society,short attention spans,instant info online for what ever you need.
Like most say,guns arent the real problem,its the psyche behind the gun.

The truly scared will always need to have an automatic weapon to wave around,for target practice? Hunting? I forget why they need em but they do. Oh Yeah,home security,that's it.

It comes back to being scared and having a feeling of powerlessness.
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Old 12-19-2012, 06:59 AM   #63
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I don't think it's am issue of turning schools into military compounds, but I can tell you at least 3 people that work at my local walmart carry a firearm. I don't think having armed guards at schools is the idea (though it would be a new job source) but to have teachers, principles or Counselors who have their CCW to carry, as well as any parent who may be on school grounds. No one even has to know they're armed.

If one of the teachers had a firearm on them and used it to prtect the students, they would have buried that teacher under the jail no matter how many lives that were saved by them. That's the issue.
So there's about 3 school shootings per year,how many schools are there in this country? How many teachers who are carrying said guns are going to be ready to throw down with an armed maniac? Can you see how there's zero sense in arming teachers and officials?
I shudder to think of Wal Mart workers carrying guns at work,just the workplace could cause them to go postal and break the things out at lunch break.
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:07 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foot dragger View Post
So there's about 3 school shootings per year,how many schools are there in this country? How many teachers who are carrying said guns are going to be ready to throw down with an armed maniac? Can you see how there's zero sense in arming teachers and officials?
I shudder to think of Wal Mart workers carrying guns at work,just the workplace could cause them to go postal and break the things out at lunch break.
3 school shootings is valid enough to ban legally able citizens from owning firearms but not valid enough to allow legally carrying citizens to carry onto school property? I shoot with 4 different teachers and one professor on almost a monthly basis. I would feel a whole lot better knowing my kid is in a school where protecting my child was actually doable instead of them hiding under a table. Also, IIRC, all of the school shootings weren't had by a person legally carrying a firearm.
Also a lot of people who I personally that carry actually are able and willing if given the right circumstances to intervene. One of those Walmart workers actually train local SWAT members how to use their weapons. Pretty scary, eh.

Outside of biology, I manage a small hardware store; all of us carry. Most of us have been doing so for at least 8 years, one since the early 1990s, guess how many incidents we have had.

You're more likely to be struck by lighting before you are shot by a legally armed citizen.
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Old 12-19-2012, 10:05 AM   #65
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How many shootings have happened in schools with school resource officers on campus?
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:09 AM   #66
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In this life, I often find that someone has already said exactly what you would say in any given situation. Here is a good example of the way things work in my head as well:


Everyone is thinking waaay too far into this issue - it is really as simple as that. I deserve the right to defend myself however I deem appropriate, and that is what the founding fathers of what is still (clinging on to be) the greatest country in the modern world intended.

Be it krav maga lessons, a can of mace in a purse, or a locked and loaded rifle by my bed - I deserve the right to feel secure.

Someone mentioned fear - you're damn right Americans are fearful! This goddamn country is in a mess, and it's gonna be an ugly scene before it gets better. Credit problems, class warfare, poor education, a general lack of respect for fellow man - these are the things that worry me.

To be honest, the whole gun argument is simply another facade for the men behind the curtain to put on for the proles, to give us the illusion of choice.

To close, let me allow another great american to speak the words that I need not type, because you can just listen to him preach the truth:
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:23 PM   #67
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I think George Carlin is talking about this guy huh?



And this is for my friend Ted. Cat Scratch Fever buddy!

Personalize funny videos and birthday eCards at JibJab!
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:27 PM   #68
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Hatch,Thanks for posting those 2 videos up. It would be hard to convince most people what G.C. is saying is true. I do believe it's true . But if you don't believe what T.N. is saying we are destined to go down the same deadly path against good law abiding citizens that we are on now.

The gentleman from the other country that said americans are afraid, he's right, I'm afraid of all these repeat offenders that were not shot to begin with when they first committed these crimes.

As far as the children in the article that was posted up from the basement, and yes I'm saying children, There is probably not just one: There are some hard decisions that have to be made there. I don't believe there is cure for his ill.So what do we do. Outlawing my right for self defense by gun is not the answer.
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Old 12-19-2012, 04:37 PM   #69
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Well said, Kelly. And Ted and George, thanks for posting that stuff, Hatch.

You folks living in your gun-free utopia, good for you. But why do you come here? Are you looking to understand us better, or trying to get us to think like you? I can assure you that the latter will never happen, and I don't think you will ever understand either.
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Old 12-19-2012, 04:52 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foot dragger View Post
"Americans are afraid" That's a key statement.
People scared of their own shadow need a lot of armament just to walk around day to day.

It comes back to being scared and having a feeling of powerlessness.
This guy is an example, he will never get it. If we were so afraid, we would never ride motorcycles or shoot big scary guns. Americans like me are more afraid of losing what our forefathers fought for. And we should be afraid of the "rehabilitated" scumbags that the prison system keeps turning out too.

And we are most afraid of people like you moving here and trying to impose on us how you think things should be, when you have no idea what principles this country was founded on.
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Old 12-19-2012, 04:53 PM   #71
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"Greatest country in the modern world" Americans are fearful! This goddamn country is in a mess, and it's gonna be an ugly scene before it gets better. Credit problems, class warfare, poor education, a general lack of respect for fellow man

Sounds like a great place to live...........................
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:11 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatch View Post
In this life, I often find that someone has already said exactly what you would say in any given situation. Here is a good example of the way things work in my head as well:


Everyone is thinking waaay too far into this issue - it is really as simple as that. I deserve the right to defend myself however I deem appropriate, and that is what the founding fathers of what is still (clinging on to be) the greatest country in the modern world intended.

Be it krav maga lessons, a can of mace in a purse, or a locked and loaded rifle by my bed - I deserve the right to feel secure.

Someone mentioned fear - you're damn right Americans are fearful! This goddamn country is in a mess, and it's gonna be an ugly scene before it gets better. Credit problems, class warfare, poor education, a general lack of respect for fellow man - these are the things that worry me.

To be honest, the whole gun argument is simply another facade for the men behind the curtain to put on for the proles, to give us the illusion of choice.

To close, let me allow another great american to speak the words that I need not type, because you can just listen to him preach the truth:
As my LEO brethren recently stated to me given the recent chain of events "Brothers in arms we will be".
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brewmann screwed with this post 12-19-2012 at 05:20 PM
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:43 PM   #73
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Had the parent who owned the guns secured them like she was taught, the kid would not have had them available and this tragedy would have never happened. IMO this country needs a spiritual awakening-

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Old 12-19-2012, 05:50 PM   #74
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This all seems irresistibly drifting toward an 'American Gun Culture' debate. I suppose that's significantly telling, but it's not at all what i intended.

For the Record: my simple premise was to take the event in Sandy Hook as the beginning of attempts to revisit gun control bill-writing in the United States. Not to draw out a comparison of U.S. vs Europe/Oz/Mars etc. That's an enormous other debate that i was not angling toward here whatsoever.


Last: To outside folks posting here: please keep in mind that this originated as a discussion between local/regional folks who know (and respect) each other from personal interaction over years. We'll see and ride with each other in the future-- we are not mere faceless 'internet warriors' down here.
This is very different from the ADV basement approach. Please respect that.

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Old 12-19-2012, 06:15 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by PFSGATORS View Post
Had the parent who owned the guns secured them like she was taught, the kid would not have had them available and this tragedy would have never happened. IMO this country needs a spiritual awakening-

PF
Lemme see.....

1) My kid is a whack job and I'm thinking of committing him to a psuedo mental facility.
2) I am a gun enthusiast with a substantial arsenal

1 + 2 = get a clue and move the guns out of your house to a secure location.

I'm pretty much a moron but I coulda figured that out.

This sounds bad, but the dumb bitch deserved what she got. Her estate should be fined for her being sofa king stupid.
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