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Old 05-11-2013, 04:19 PM   #721
Ol'NumNuts
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Really? Can we stop the personal mud flinging now? d
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Old 05-11-2013, 04:20 PM   #722
RidingDonkeys
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Between here and CH, the stupidity is running deep today.
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Old 05-11-2013, 04:30 PM   #723
RidingDonkeys
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROYAL COACHMAN View Post
Hi guys!
New owner here
Reading the posts about the rear rack breaking, has anyone figured out how to make it a 4 point securing system rather than the 2 bolts as stock?

I have not picked the bike up yet so i don't have the visual reference
Thanks!
It actually is a 4 point system, but the four points are far in front of the load bearing portion of the rack. The aftermarket is catching up, but I think this would be a super easy fabrication job to make your own.
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Old 05-11-2013, 05:32 PM   #724
ROYAL COACHMAN
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Thanks for the input
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Old 05-11-2013, 07:04 PM   #725
trapperj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROYAL COACHMAN View Post
Hi guys!
New owner here
Reading the posts about the rear rack breaking, has anyone figured out how to make it a 4 point securing system rather than the 2 bolts as stock?

I have not picked the bike up yet so i don't have the visual reference
Thanks!
Who ever decides to step up and make their own could make several of us happy and possibly make a few extra dollars too. I am ready to buy right now. In fact, I tried to buy but the vendors who said they are coming are not ready yet. Who knows...maybe the KTM buy out made them get cold feet? Time will tell.
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Old 05-11-2013, 08:00 PM   #726
HighFive OP
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rride, I'm losing count of the insults you've implied or hurled my way amidst the multiple edits and reposts you've made, since this morning. I was going to ignore it, but now you're insulting my guests, and you've crossed the line.

Either cool your jets or get off my Thread. Stop harassing any and everyone who may disagree with you. If you're so confident in your own suspension knowledge, start your own Thread on the subject and see how it goes. If you put out bad information, you'll get called on the carpet....ever time. Shouting louder and hurling insults won't make it any more valid.

I'm so pleased to learn that I'm "qualified" under your own standards, since I actually do indeed have two Engineering degrees (BS & MS). And it's apparently even more fortunate that I specialized in Fluid Hydraulics. But wait....there's more. I was actually the chief plant engineer for the lubricates complex of a major oil refinery for several years.....formulating and blending the type of oils which you infer to be so intimately familiar with. Would you like to explain what 5wt actually means, and how it's determined? What properties are changed to make it 10wt? How does it behave differently when sheared (as when passing thru a valve orifice?

Have you ever completely disassembled a cartridge fork and rebuilt it by yourself? Modified it? Tested it? Measured the result? I'm not being sarcastic, I would really like to know your experience. It would be helpful to understand where you are coming from when you explain your concepts. You are the one that brought up "qualifications", not me. It's off topic.....but it's my Thread....let's indulge for a moment. At least to inform & entertain our audience, if nothing else. Can you explain the difference between a telescopic fork and a cartridge fork?

I have personally rebuilt numerous suspensions.....both types. Even done it for Fat Guys too. Personally, I take offense at your derogatory implications of my supposedly slender physique. But I'll overlook it this time, since you never asked how many twinkies I used to eat daily (thank God the factory was closed this year). But I digress....

And yes, for the record...of course, I have competed (on those suspensions previously mentioned) in actual AMA National Championship events over the past 20+ years, and surprisingly even won once.....or twice.....ah hell, maybe several more. But who cares? Well, besides you anyway.

Your turn! What are your qualifications, since you made such a big stink about it? Come on, let's hear it. .

It's put up or shut up time!

Rare, I know, but sometimes you really get what you wish for. Here is your golden opportunity. Let's have it....

HF
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Old 05-11-2013, 08:45 PM   #727
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For the rest of you, please bear with me while I address this "issue" above. Comes with the territory of being an OP, I reckon. I appreciate everyone's participation on this Thread, and trust its been helpful to you.

Keep bringing the Stupid Questions....that's what it's for. Hopefully, you'll get an answer. Maybe a smart one, maybe a stupid one....I donno. But I simply won't stand for any inmate insulting my guests. There's no call for it. You can state your opinion, or make your case in a respectful manner. Then, we all might learn something new.

Now then.....back to the bike.

As promised, I measured my suspension tonight and have the numbers for you.it was honestly the first time I got a flashlight out and took a good look at the rear shock. Just been too busy riding it and having fun up till now. My suspension has worked quite well (as mentioned) so it's not been on my mind. Which is an unusual thing for me, as its often the first thing I attack.

The shock adjustment is very similar to a KLR....with the graduated step adjustment instead of a big long threaded section. Except you have to use a long screwdriver and hammer to move it, instead of the nice socket-ratchet on the KLR. There....I finally find something I like better on the KLR, than my Terra. Actually, I would prefer the threaded adjustment given a choice, for both.

Tried the spanner wrench from the toolkit. Forget it.....ain't worth the hassle. I simple whacked hard on a screwdriver and made short work of it.

Here we're my measurements with the stock settings my bike came with (after 2,800 miles):

Static Sag =19mm
Rider Sag = 58mm

My preload adjuster was set at #3 position (with #1 being most relaxed spring setting.....least amount of preload). Today, I weighed 195 lbs fully geared.

Does anyone remember total travel of rear suspension? I said 7.5" earlier, but maybe it's 7.0. For now, let's just use 7 inches for reference, which equals about 180mm of travel.

Personally, I'd like at least 25mm of Static Sag, and 40% Travel for Rider Sag: 180mm x 40% = 72mm target

Comparing, I'm currently 19mm/58mm versus 25mm/72mm desired.

So, I loosened the preload to the #1 position (minimum adjustable amount) and got the following new measurements: 22mm/60mm for static/rider sag, respectively.

Well, that's it. Ain't much else I can do with it unless I change the rear shock out to something else. We are quite limited for adjustment range on the light side. Looks like a fair bit more range on the heavier side (for adding more preload).

Didn't get out for a good test ride yet, but I imagine it will feel just fine. I'll have to run it thru the paces a while, to be sure. Up & down the road doesn't tell you much.....felt about the same. If anything changes significantly, I'll sure let you know.

-----------------------

Stay after it, TrapperJ. Glad to hear you're to sorting it out.

HF
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Old 05-12-2013, 06:12 AM   #728
Blakebird
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighFive View Post
I appreciate everyone's participation on this Thread, and trust its been helpful to you.
Very helpful - and I'm sure I'm not done with the stupid questions myself.
I just don't have much patience with stupid answerers I don't lose my forum cool often, but occasionally it gets to a point where I will blow off a little steam - sorry it had to happen in your thread.

For the record, I'm 6'-1" 235# and have been riding offroad since the late 60's.
I mostly dualsport dedicated dirtbikes, but have had a few factory legal dualsports like the TE 610, TE 630, and the heavyweight and short travelled TR650 Terra.

....and I've worked for the same engineering firm for 27 yrs.
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Old 05-12-2013, 07:13 AM   #729
DirtJack
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Do the forks and shock have compression and rebound damping adjustments or are you limited to spring preload adjustments?
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Old 05-12-2013, 07:17 AM   #730
krussell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtJack View Post
Do the forks and shock have compression and rebound damping adjustments or are you limited to spring preload adjustments?
Front - not adjustable
Rear - Preload and Rebound Damping
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Old 05-12-2013, 07:58 AM   #731
DirtJack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krussell View Post
Front - not adjustable
Rear - Preload and Rebound Damping
Hmm. so spring change and/or spacers to set front sag.
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Old 05-12-2013, 10:36 AM   #732
RuggedExposure
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"Can't we all just get along?"

I'm kind of on standby until I get my shop up and going. My first project will be making a sturdy, bolt on rack. And if its easy enough, I may make a few to sell. Look through some of my threads, you can see I fabricate stuff for my bikes often. If it looks too beefy for you, or you want something aluminum, tough. I'm sure Altrider or SW whatever will make something up your alley eventually.

Then I'll get to messing with the suspension.
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Old 05-12-2013, 10:42 AM   #733
Makis54
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+1. This is good information/advice and is exactly what someone who knows suspension is going to recommend when sorting out a new bike.
The knee jerk "heavier oil is better" is a throwback to old damper rod fork band aids, not modern cartridge style forks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighFive View Post
Lighter weight oil does not have a shorter useful life than heavier weight oil, per se. That is simply not accurate. And "thicker" is not necessarily better. In fact, it may be worse!

Regarding "clanking", I've not experienced it on my Terra, but it is usually due to topping out (or bottoming out) of the internal components. It can often be resolved by increasing the volume of oil inside the fork. Add a little at a time (5 to 10 cc) and test. Continue until resolved. Oil is incompressible, so you fill to the point you create a bit of liquid cushion at the top....so to speak....before the cartridge reaches the end and "clanks" metal on metal.

Increasing the viscosity (changing the oil weight) is a band-aid approach. A cartridge fork passes oil thru small orifices (holes in the valve)....back & forth. Lighter weight/viscosity allows more oil to pass thru the valve quicker than heavier oil.....resulting in a greater distance of fork travel for given load over a given time.

So yes, you can slow the fork movement down in a cartridge system with heavier oil, but that can produce several undesirable consequences in your suspension performance.....depending upon your weight and riding style. Too heavy, and your forks will just plain suck.....hydraulic packing will occur frequently (in successive bumps) making the bike handle terribly.

Choose the weight of oil needed to make the forks function correctly for your weight and riding style. Set the oil height to a level that tops out before the internals due, to solve your clanking.

Also, dial-in your suspension correctly by adjusting both static sag and rider sag properly. This will help balance the system to function more correctly. If the rear shock is under-loaded and/or too stiff, you will likely have too much weight/force on the front suspension.....causing it to behave poorly and bottom out too quickly. It's all connected......cause & effect.

If the stock suspension plain sucks (like on my F800GS originally) then nothing will help short of total gut & replacement of internals. However, I have pleasantly found the Terra suspension to be reasonably good for what it was intended to do. Could always be better, of course, but it ain't too bad out of the box, all things considered.

HF
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Old 05-12-2013, 12:59 PM   #734
gregjet
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Krussel inter alia:
Just pulled my TR forks apart completely to have a look and shorten the forks ( please don't start I have reasons plural).
Interestingly the damping is quasi adjustable like most forks by changing the viscosity rating rating of the oil. BUT here is the really good news....
The left and right forks take the compression and rebound separately. The right is compression and the left is rebound. That would allow you to have different viscosity oils for each and fine tune each exclusively.
That also makes tuning the forks after changing the spring rate easier as well.
I am going to post a big post with photos eventually of the steps to shorten the forks with pics but as this forum is really aimed at adventure ( read OFF road) riders and this is a project to "roadify" the TR Strada, I will prob post on Cafe husky. This mod REDUCES the suspension travel to 140mm. It has made the bike much better planted on the road and turns in MUCH better.
Just one of the reasons for the project is because i really like the bike but my 5'3" girlfriend ( and 40 years riding experience) girlfriend cannot ride it as it is WAY too tall. I am lowering the front and back to see if she can ride it.
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Old 05-12-2013, 06:20 PM   #735
HighFive OP
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Very interesting, gregjet. Feel free to show & tell right here, if you like. This Thread is intended to be a technical resource for the TR650 (Terra & Strada).

So, it's the perfect place for it. Bring it on!

HF
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