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Old 12-26-2012, 03:15 PM   #16
wrk2surf
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Bike only specials ?

How about roadbook navagation only?

Fuel Minimums?

Can riders CARRY GAS ?

Malles Moto ?

why not vehicle age groups 60-70... 70-80,,80's to 90 ?

Wish this pot was stirred earlier..
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wrk2surf screwed with this post 12-26-2012 at 05:39 PM
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Old 12-26-2012, 04:55 PM   #17
roadracer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strong Bad View Post
Actually it is safer to have everyone that typically runs at the same pace running together. You really want Robby Gordon working his way though everyone after he has one of his typical brain farts? (Actually Rubby won't be there this next race but still....)
Slow people on bikes are going to get passed by the cars no matter what. Robby did pass me one time during the race and he was quite polite!

I don't think it's a big deal, so I'm not going to dwell on it, but I think if two people are pretty similar in speed and the slightly faster one had screwed up, they should have to work to pass the slightly slower one who didn't. I only know of one stage last year where I found the dust made it hard to pass/see, but it might as well not be the other way around.

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Published start time would be at the first stage of the day. I don't know about the rest of you question as all of the stages I navigated in we were leading overall, we simply drove to the front of the line, presented our paperwork on time, and off we went!
I'm referring to the first stage of the day, not the following ones and I guess I'm asking specifically about how this will work to avoid a repeat of Certain People showing up at the last possible second instead of sitting there for an hour like the rest of us. =) If you really do need to be there 60 minutes early, I'd like to know that as well.

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The official time is also written on the sticker on the vehicle.
I hear that, but last year we had a bike without times recorded for 2 or 3 of the 4 days and it could affect people's strategies. No reason to be in that situation so we should make sure we can have (mostly) accurate results each night.

It's fun, it's a rally, I get it, but when it doesn't cause us to have less fun, it might as well be more correct!
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Old 12-26-2012, 05:50 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by wrk2surf View Post
Malles Moto ?
Actually what MaineRoot and I have been discussing is basically that -- My trucks carry all those "unsupported" riders supplies from night to night. I'd have it organized with everyone at the same hotel (even in BofLA). Riders do their own maintenance from their own boxes. We supply chemicals, some misc. parts, etc.
Unlike Dakar you're not in a tent though
We also transport all these unsupported (no personal truck/people support) bikes and supplies to Mexicali and back north from Cabo.


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Originally Posted by wrk2surf View Post
Can riders CARRY GAS ?
I don't think a "no carry" rule can be made unless Norra was to handle the fuel (ala Dakar).
Can you imagine if we all HAD to rely on a pit service that happened to not be in the correct spot (can't imagine that ever happening, right?).
It would also play into stategy; hope you make the miles of a section with only what your tank holds, or carry extra bouncing around weight and possibly have to stop and dump it in, or don't carry and pray the pit service gas is actually where it's supposed to be.

At the Nevada Rally we were not allowed to carry gas ever on our bodies but the pits were only like 90 miles apart and you'd see your own personal truck or if it was a longer section then BITD trailered your personal gas jug out to a set spot. So really it was a non-issue, everyone was in the same boat, it was reliable.
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Old 12-27-2012, 06:46 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadracer View Post
Couple comments/questions on the updated rules:

Seems unfair to penalize the folks who didn't have a mechanical/bad section once the race has started, however minor that penalty.
Fairness, which many people have different opinions on, is on part of the balancing act... one other part is safety. The more people don't have to fight past slower people, the better. Besides, the ultimate "fairness" is the results. You can't escape that those mechancials or slow sections ultimately move you further and further down the results.


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One thing that looks like it's missing:
1) You have to turn in your timecard at the finish line of each day with no exceptions or you max out.
The penalties section: 10.4.1.3


Cheers,
Anders
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:36 AM   #20
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Anders, Great work on the many options and rule streamlining... I think what people are bringing up is cheating and preferential treatment that was witnessed last year without really saying it or naming names. There also should be a solo or team clarification or a seperate classification for multiple riders. I can also see many classes that may not even have an entry opening up this option.
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:41 AM   #21
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Less classes=more riders per class and better competition. IMHO.
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:51 PM   #22
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No mention of Public flogging of vehicle drivers that pass motorcycles without courtesy
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Old 12-28-2012, 06:48 AM   #23
Anders Green OP
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Thanks w2s. :-) I tried to make the vehicle rules more compact and structured. The general rules haved plugged some of the fuzzy areas and should be more straightforward this year.

And the flogging should be in there somewhere, I'm sure. ;-)


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Old 12-28-2012, 07:17 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadracer View Post
Slow people on bikes are going to get passed by the cars no matter what. Robby did pass me one time during the race and he was quite polite!

I don't think it's a big deal, so I'm not going to dwell on it, but I think if two people are pretty similar in speed and the slightly faster one had screwed up, they should have to work to pass the slightly slower one who didn't. I only know of one stage last year where I found the dust made it hard to pass/see, but it might as well not be the other way around.
Only one speical stage out of a 1200 mile race where dust was an issue? That sounds pretty damn good, all things considered!

While I know your youtube video was not the complete race, besides for being passed politely by Robby, you seemed to have the whole course to yourself, even when you dropped your GPS.

I thought the spacing (start times linked to speed) worked great and was much better than the 2011 M1K, when they did not do it that way. It is nice to not get run down by much faster cars, especially since they are opening classes to allow open cars. And it was nice to not get stuck behind a 60's era Bronco that is going slow and kicking up too much dust to pass on a dirt road special.

It is a timed rally, if dust is not an issue (which by spacing based on times seems to all but cure), what difference does it make if a guy starts ahead of you. You just have to be faster on the special to beat him/her.

I guess I'm just confused why there are complaints about this when it seemed to work exactly as it is supposed to by minimizing people getting caught by faster vehicles, and people being hindered by slower vehicles, and to help avoid people riding in dust for hundreds of miles. Your time in the special is your time, regardless of where every other competitor is on the course.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders Green View Post
The more people don't have to fight past slower people, the better. Besides, the ultimate "fairness" is the results. You can't escape that those mechancials or slow sections ultimately move you further and further down the results.
This makes sense to me.
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Old 12-29-2012, 06:32 AM   #25
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I'm asking here instead of the other NORAA thread since it is a rule question:

The NORRA installed GPS/Time Position recorder....How Big? Where will they want to put in on a M/C?

It says they recommend a GPS for the track but it is in Lowrance format .....will my Garmin 76CS work?
I'm not very GPS savy I only use one for bread crumbs so I can get back if I get lost.

Thanky
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:10 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnson357 View Post
I'm asking here instead of the other NORAA thread since it is a rule question:

The NORRA installed GPS/Time Position recorder....How Big? Where will they want to put in on a M/C?

It says they recommend a GPS for the track but it is in Lowrance format .....will my Garmin 76CS work?
I'm not very GPS savy I only use one for bread crumbs so I can get back if I get lost.

Thanky
Last year the GPS file was available in both Lowrance and Garmin format. Even if it isn't it can be converted easily. When the time comes if it is only in Lowrance format I will need to convert it also and would be happy to give you the converted file.

Also, last year they had the same note in the rules about the GPS recorder but they never actually used them. Curious if they will use it this year. I am also curiuos about how big they are.
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:58 AM   #27
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Old 12-29-2012, 11:36 AM   #28
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None of it is a big deal or going to affect my participation. I think the right person will win in the end, but since they're giving out trophies and its going to costs $5k+ to run the thing, I think it's fair to give feedback and try to make the race as professionally run as is practical. Taking it seriously doesn't detract from the fun. I think it adds to it.

It feels like the next big leap is really going to be the gps tracker/electronic scoring. I'm not sure I'd want to pay an extra $500 (or whatever) in entry fees to have that, though.

Oregoncoast, you're right it is super wide open. I think I passed or was passed by people I could see a grand total of 7 or 8 times? That is bikes and cars included. Two of those were after I bailed and hurt myself on the last day. Granted I only raced a little over half of the race miles, but even if it's double, thats a pretty small number.

Passing people is one of the unique challenges of all racing, even delayed start events like this rally or the baja 1k.

Anders, it's probably worth asking the marketing folks not to promote an earlier starting position as part of paying your entry fee early since that will not be the case. See the most recent email:

"Official rally registration paid in full will guarantee early entrants the chance to pick their own vehicle number, earn a front starting spot within each class the first day as well reserving one hotel room in Bahia De Los Angeles (Bay of LA), the rally’s first of three overnight stops."

The number of classes they have is sort of irrelevant at the moment. The fast guys are looking to win the overall and I don't think many are paying attention to what class they are in. I think they should have cut it to 3 or 4 classes so there could be some races within the races. Last year I didn't see that. How many out of the total motorcycle field left with a trophy? Looking at the results, every bike except 5 that started the race was in the top 3. Thats worse than high school football in texas. =)
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Old 12-29-2012, 03:31 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by drc42 View Post
Last year the GPS file was available in both Lowrance and Garmin format. Even if it isn't it can be converted easily. When the time comes if it is only in Lowrance format I will need to convert it also and would be happy to give you the converted file.

Also, last year they had the same note in the rules about the GPS recorder but they never actually used them. Curious if they will use it this year. I am also curiuos about how big they are.
Thanks and maybe Anders can ring in on the if they are going to be tracking us...I'll need a new foil helmet liner if so...don't want them reading my thoughts too.

Roadracer Obama is still president so I'm sure everyone will get a trophy and a hug when it's over because that is part of the puss-a-fication of America agenda
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Old 12-29-2012, 03:58 PM   #30
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Not hardly a place for your political commentary, but our grand old party has long invited what we get now. And there is more to come! We are shockingly dysfunctional and out of touch.

It'll work out OK though. It always does.
It's a joke relax.....but if it makes you feel better sorry
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