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Old 04-22-2012, 08:25 PM   #1
satchmo3 OP
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Hyperpro springs

I had the Hyperpro progressive front springs and 10 wt oil installed yesterday and went for a test ride today.
These springs have transformed the handling of the bike, like night and day.
No more scary brake dive, no bottoming out on reasonably rough dirt and washes, much better tracking and more stable at highway speed, more planted in the twisties. I'm 5'10, 170# and ride about 60/40 road - dirt. If you are thinking about this mod , do it, allows the bike to be ridden as it was intended IMO.
EPM performance has the best price and Klause was great.
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Old 04-22-2012, 08:44 PM   #2
hamiamham
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Old 04-23-2012, 04:14 AM   #3
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Good info, thanks for posting that up..

I've been looking to do the same upgrade, especially with Hyperpro as I've only had good experiences with their stuff on my race bikes. I'm exactly the same build as you at 5"10 and 170 lbs, so results should be very comparable. I just wasn't sure of how much a difference only springs and oil would make, as I've only used their full fork internals and shock combo before. Can't wait to try it out myself on this summers upcoming rides...

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Old 04-23-2012, 05:15 AM   #4
JRWooden
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With the Hyperpro springs do you still use the spacer tube used with the stock springs, or are the Hyperpros full length?

I think the stock fork oil is 7.5wt did Hyperpro recommend the bump up?

Thanks!

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Old 04-23-2012, 05:46 AM   #5
Snowy
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What's the spring rate range of the Hyperpro?

I went to a 0.55 in the front in a straight rate. It had 10 weight oil in it and it sucked. Tendency to hop over small sharp bumps. Resulting in loss of traction and the marvellous BMW tendency to push the front wheel (understeer) right when you don't want it to.

I drained it a couple of weekends back and put 7.5 in and it works much better most of the time. Like a jack hammer over brake bumps though. It's just too difficult to compensate for the lack of adequate damping in the standard fork internals.

Now that the rear end is sorted, the front end is just feeling worse and worse.

My suspension guy is researching the Racetech cartridges for me. He hasn't done a set for an F800. Learning curve for both of us.

I'm pricing swapping an entire KTM twin disc front end. Japanese front ends are too problematic to fit. I've measured up about 5 different combos and given up on each.
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Old 04-23-2012, 07:02 AM   #6
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KTM front end

Heres a photo of a buddy's bike were he rebuilt the front end using KTM parts and Woody wheels, he's still trying dial it in.
When the bike is loaded with gear and luggage, it's gets a little wobble at high speed...maybe from being too light?
He's been talking with the folks from Woody's on what can be done. Guessing it's a work in progress.
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:20 AM   #7
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I have posted this info early and often. Probably can find more about it in stickies.

I received my bike in 9/08 and almost immediately found the suspension lacking. At the time the Hyperpro suspension was the only fix in town.

The spring rate for the front is .52-.74kg. I could never find a rate for the rear, but obviously a higher rate than stock. The front spring is a little shorter than stock, and still uses the spacer. Ride height in front is the same due to less sag. The rear spring will raise the back even without preload due to its rating.

For my weight (200#) I could not get textbook sag rates. Bike sag alone made up most of it.

In the course of a year I experimented with many oil weights/ air gaps and spacer lengths.
Springs alone will not solve high speed compression issues. The compression valving still spikes over square edge bumps. The springs do soften it but does not solve it.

My final solution was to cut the spacers to 9/16" and run 10 wt oil. I felt compressing the spring to install plus bike weight alone was pre compressing the soft end of the spring too much for my weight. That did soften the front some. Rider sag vs bike sag became closer to normal, though less than ideal.
I do not recall final air gap measurement, but somewhere between stock and Hyperpro recommendations.

An added benefit to cutting the spacer, was it lowered the front a little and with preload dialed into the rear made the bike very stable on and off road even with TKC's.

I still think it is a good cheap fix. It is adequate for relative smooth dirt. It will not be a solution for a hard charger in rocky terrain.
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:14 AM   #8
JRWooden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CORider View Post
Heres a photo of a buddy's bike were he rebuilt the front end using KTM parts and Woody wheels, he's still trying dial it in.
When the bike is loaded with gear and luggage, it's gets a little wobble at high speed...maybe from being too light?
He's been talking with the folks from Woody's on what can be done. Guessing it's a work in progress.
This may not be your buddy's problem at all, but I find my bike gets a bit of a high-speed wobble if the sag on the rear suspension is too high ... i.e. the bike is nose-up a bit.... usually this happens to me when I load up the panniers and forget to dial up the rear preload...
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:21 AM   #9
itsatdm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CORider View Post
Heres a photo of a buddy's bike were he rebuilt the front end using KTM parts and Woody wheels, he's still trying dial it in.
When the bike is loaded with gear and luggage, it's gets a little wobble at high speed...maybe from being too light?
He's been talking with the folks from Woody's on what can be done. Guessing it's a work in progress.

The percentage of weight on the wheels is 47% front to 53% rear without a rider. I suspect it is biased even more with a seated rider and certainly will be with luggage.

From the pic it looks like the front got jacked up more with the modifications.

My Bitubo inserts and the longer spring they provide did exactly the same. Makes the bike over steer, weave at speed and had no front end grip in soft terrain.

You have to get more weight on the front tire. It will make the bike more stable even stock, depending on load.
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Old 04-23-2012, 05:40 PM   #10
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Yeah thanks itsatdm, I read your posts early on regarding the suspension on this bike, much appreciated. I've got 24000 miles on my 2010, when I first got the bike I didn't push it too hard or do much off road. As I became more comfortable with the bike I began to push it harder and do more offroad riding, this is when I started to realize how weak the front end is. My last couple trips to Baja found me really un happy, the bike bottomed hard way to easily off road and the brake dive was disturbing to say the least. I agree that super aggressive riders will probably want to go further with these forks, I would call myself medium aggressive, raced motocross as a teenager, but not the risk taker I was then, especially with a 450 Ib bike.
The set up I have with the progressive springs and 10 wt. oil is what Klause recommended for my size and riding preferences. Again I say this mod has transformed the bike for me, better handling and safer.
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Old 04-23-2012, 07:05 PM   #11
itsatdm
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That was my thought too. It is an improvement no question. So much so, I never gave the rear a thought until I improved the front. Then the rear held me back, so that came next.

Next thing you know you will be picking up speed and you will feel if only you had a little more improvement.

Though I have upgraded the front again, I still have the Hyperpro rear. Got to draw the line some where.
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Old 04-24-2012, 06:22 AM   #12
Snowy
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If the F800GS nose is high in relation to the rear, like when you have too much sag in the rear and too little in the front, it wobbles. Your rear preload affects the ride height, and that has an effect on the geometry of the front end.

With longer travel front ends you will usually have a lighter spring rate. A 300mm travel will require a spring rate approx 10~20% lighter than if the bike had a 200mm travel front end. I found fitting a RMZ front end to a DR worked well with .50 springs, when previously I had used .52 springs with the shorter travel front. From a springing point of view they felt very similar. But you need to ensure the longer travel front has the right preload to achieve the correct rider sag. I work at around 100mm for a fork with 300mm travel. On the BMW around the 75~80mm mark. Preload should be based on the travel of the particular suspension you have fitted, not on the normal recommended for the bike it's going onto. Edit: you may have to modify the rear to achieve the right ride height, as distinct from simply adjusting pre load to achieve it. Like lengthening the shock. Just make sure you're tall enough.

I recently fitted a 300mm travel front end to another DR and put .52 springs in it to allow for fitting a 30 litre tank. Riding it with the standard tank is horrible. Like a chopper with a rigid front. Yet, I've used exactly the same spring rate in a shorter travel fork and it wasn't any where near as bad. My preload is way off because I don't have the planned load on it.

With too little rear preload, and too much front preload I had an erratic little head shake on my BMW at around 100kph, when I rode with a pillion.

When you transition under hard throttle from a fast left hander to a fast right hander, or visa verca, it twitches. Something to do with the geometry change as the suspension unloads and reloads. Feels very uncool, almost like the front is off the ground and then touches down slightly out of line. I could also get it to wallow and drag the centre stand very easily. Trail braking cured the wobble to an extent, but I've gone through 2 sets of rear pads in 35000km.

Front sag was ok with a pillion, but the rear was too soft and had run out of adjustment on the preload collar of the Ohlins. I had the Ohlins revalved and dropped the preload collar. Still too soft a spring rate and the front had moments when it felt unstable.

Cured it by putting heavier spring in the rear to achieve proper level of laden sag (around 70mm - measured at axle centre - with the pillion, I wind on the preload 10 full turns it is the same sag as solo, 15 full turns for pillion and all the camping gear, same sag as solo) and dropped the triples 10mm on the forks.

The front is still no good on some surfaces where the back end is working perfectly now. I can't adjust anything though. RaceTech cartridges on order. Pre load caps as well.


I'm talking here about taking the F800 suspension to the extreme with pillion/rider/camping gear coming in around 240~260kg. It can be done, you just have to keep throwing money at it. You get used to bits breaking. Sort of.

Snowy screwed with this post 04-24-2012 at 06:31 AM
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:49 PM   #13
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Oil level...

I have the hyperpro springs in my forks and am currently rebuilding them. I lost my original instructions with the oil level/ air gap. does anyone remember the suggested setting? Thanks...
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Old 12-30-2012, 12:06 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monsterscout View Post
I have the hyperpro springs in my forks and am currently rebuilding them. I lost my original instructions with the oil level/ air gap. does anyone remember the suggested setting? Thanks...
I'm reading 120mm air gap here:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=417786

bigger air gap = less progressive

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Old 12-30-2012, 02:49 AM   #15
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Ah thanks for reviving this thread. Was planning on doing this mod in the spring. Now I'm more enthousiast then ever
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