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Old 08-20-2013, 03:21 PM   #841
joexr
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If somebody with some seat time can't FEEL countersteering , they'll NEVER get a feel for it , regardless of what they read. You can't teach and improve somebody that's afraid still even after a few 1,000 miles . You can't learn control if you don't know what out of control REALLY is. Most people are too afraid and they're nowhere near the limits , so they have no idea what's actually possible.
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Old 08-20-2013, 04:01 PM   #842
farmerstu
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Originally Posted by David R View Post
I was one of them.

David
David, thank you for your honesty. Joexr is just plain wrong. as you found out it needs to be tought. a physics course in not necessary but a little explanation of countersteering and some demonstration are certainly called for.I've called out for joexr and hippiebrain (whose posts on most subjects i like) to weave the white lines at 60. despite all joexr internet prowess he hasn't come back and said he has actually done it. It is something any rider with good countersteering skills and a few thousand miles of riding can do with ease. I.e. doesn't take racer type skills.
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Old 08-20-2013, 04:05 PM   #843
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A lot of riders are legends in their own minds, that is for damn sure...
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Old 08-20-2013, 04:26 PM   #844
joexr
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A lot of riders are legends in their own minds, that is for damn sure...
And some of you are here because you type better than you ride. Me ? I AM a legend. You have no idea.

joexr screwed with this post 08-20-2013 at 04:33 PM
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Old 08-20-2013, 04:57 PM   #845
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Laugh

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Originally Posted by farmerstu View Post
David, thank you for your honesty. Joexr is just plain wrong. as you found out it needs to be tought. a physics course in not necessary but a little explanation of countersteering and some demonstration are certainly called for.I've called out for joexr and hippiebrain (whose posts on most subjects i like) to weave the white lines at 60. despite all joexr internet prowess he hasn't come back and said he has actually done it. It is something any rider with good countersteering skills and a few thousand miles of riding can do with ease. I.e. doesn't take racer type skills.
The only person you ever called out was your same-sex , life-partner out of your closet.
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Old 08-20-2013, 05:25 PM   #846
Boon Booni
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Originally Posted by joexr View Post
If somebody with some seat time can't FEEL countersteering , they'll NEVER get a feel for it ...
I can honestly say that I rode for at least 4 years before I thought about counter steering. And that when I finally started consciously pushing to turn, it made me a much better rider, immediately.

I remember going around my first fast sharp corner after talking about it, and I said "holy shit, this really snaps the bike around"

I went around corners fine before that, though I did have a few target fixated "I'm going to fast for this corner" moments that I made it through by luck. Looking back on those moments, I was hardly turning the bike at all and had plenty of angle left to lean.

Everyone learns differently, I definitely learned by discussing it and then practicing what I'd discussed.
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Old 08-20-2013, 05:53 PM   #847
joexr
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I started riding at 7. I got good when I started racing MX at 12. At 13 raced flat-track & TT too. About 16 I was racing a class up because I usually won. Started roadracing at 17. Drag raced a bit too. I'm 50 now and haven't slowed down any YET. I was riding for about 10 years before I ever read about countersteering and realized I had been doing it all along. It doesn't need a name. It's how you turn a motorcycle.
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Old 08-20-2013, 06:23 PM   #848
Dirty in all
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The only person you ever called out was your same-sex , life-partner out of your closet.
That's counterqueering
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Old 08-20-2013, 07:16 PM   #849
joexr
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Eh?

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That's counterqueering
I DON'T want to know WHERE they do it.
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:42 AM   #850
IrishJohn OP
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Well Ladies and Gentlemen, I have been riding all summer now and so far so good. I am rather amazed that my question is till running here but sincerely thank you for all the efforts shown to help clear up the 'Confusion" I've read the books (Proficient Motorcycling etc) and talked with other Bikers and while still wondering if I fully understand Countersteering I have also really thought and observed what is actually happening when I ride and I figure it is this - the bike turns because the initial 'opposite' steer unbalances it and throws it in the desired direction for whatever portion of time is needed to have it pointed in the direction one wants.Having pointed the bike you then regain equilibrium by bringing the bike upright by bringing your front wheel back into line. I realise all this sounds 'clunkey' and is certainly non-technical language but its the only way I can verbalize what I understand to be actually happening when you turn the handlebars.
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Old 08-21-2013, 02:06 AM   #851
Jim Moore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joexr View Post
I started riding at 7. I got good when I started racing MX at 12. At 13 raced flat-track & TT too. About 16 I was racing a class up because I usually won. Started roadracing at 17. Drag raced a bit too. I'm 50 now and haven't slowed down any YET. I was riding for about 10 years before I ever read about countersteering and realized I had been doing it all along. It doesn't need a name. It's how you turn a motorcycle.
All that awesomeness, and yet you can't link us to any results.
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http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=949341
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:55 PM   #852
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Originally Posted by farmerstu View Post
David, thank you for your honesty. Joexr is just plain wrong. as you found out it needs to be tought. a physics course in not necessary but a little explanation of countersteering and some demonstration are certainly called for.I've called out for joexr and hippiebrain (whose posts on most subjects i like) to weave the white lines at 60. despite all joexr internet prowess he hasn't come back and said he has actually done it. It is something any rider with good countersteering skills and a few thousand miles of riding can do with ease. I.e. doesn't take racer type skills.

I've been riding for 40 years. Obviously I can weave lines at 60. That said, tell someone to practice weaving lines at 60 mph until they are good at it. Then explain to someone else what countersteering is and tell them to do the same thing. You will get exactly the same results, because it is impossible to perform this task without countersteering, and the person who doesn't know what countersteering is will do exactly that without knowing it.

Again I say, there is enough for a new rider to be thinking about without adding additional unnecessary information. Like I said, I rode about 30 years without knowing what countersteering was (maybe 25 years, something like that) and the knowledge did nothing for my skills. It was a nice to know fact, but that was about it.
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Old 08-21-2013, 03:43 PM   #853
joexr
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Originally Posted by Jim Moore View Post
All that awesomeness, and yet you can't link us to any results.
Link ? I haven't raced since the internet. I'll give you a hint. My MX # was 8 , I held a drag racing record and I was banned by the AMA for downshifting a guy that kicked me during a race.
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Old 08-21-2013, 04:43 PM   #854
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Joexr, your comments at post 841 and on are right on with my MSF coaching experience of the past 20 years. Some people just won't accept it, or don't even know they do it (to take benefit from it), or will never attempt to ride to a point where they could really use it and learn from it.

But,....those same people are very likely the ones that will crash a bike at some point for lack of at least using the technique, whether they understand it or not.
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Old 08-21-2013, 05:05 PM   #855
joexr
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Originally Posted by Andyvh1959 View Post
Joexr, your comments at post 841 and on are right on with my MSF coaching experience of the past 20 years. Some people just won't accept it, or don't even know they do it (to take benefit from it), or will never attempt to ride to a point where they could really use it and learn from it.

But,....those same people are very likely the ones that will crash a bike at some point for lack of at least using the technique, whether they understand it or not.
Countersteering isn't a technique. It's how you turn a bike.
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