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Old 08-22-2013, 06:25 PM   #871
henshao
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I would like to formally change my stance.

New riders should not be taught shit about how a motorcycle works. The ignition key, on/off switch, starter button, clutch lever, gear shifter, throttle, countersteering. None of this should be explained or outlined to a new rider.

Pressing the starter button is not a technique. It's how you start the motorcycle. if by some stroke of luck the new rider manages to get going, he'll have enough on his mind without any of this "knowledge" to confuse him.
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Old 08-22-2013, 08:02 PM   #872
lnewqban
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Cool2

Quote:
Originally Posted by hippiebrian View Post
Slow entering the turn. Look where you are going to be after the turn by actually moving your head. Accelerate through the turn.

Much easier for a new person to grasp.
Yeap! ............ regarding basic training, I would add this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Crash View Post
Press left, go left. Press right, go right.
There is no need to complicate things for a new person with the details we have discussed earlier.
Some types of riders will like to investigate more after they master the basic skills.
For others, those details don't deserve a second thought.
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Old 08-22-2013, 08:32 PM   #873
joexr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Moore View Post
. . Right now you're just an internet crackpot.
Maybe one day I'll have YOUR credibility and level of expertise. Everybody knows YOUR OPINION is the only one that matters , your being the resident WINDBAG and all.
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Old 08-22-2013, 08:48 PM   #874
farmerstu
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Originally Posted by joexr View Post
Maybe one day I'll have YOUR credibility and level of expertise. Everybody knows YOUR OPINION is the only one that matters , your being the resident WINDBAG and all.
so post up your creds. p.u.o.s.u.
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Old 08-22-2013, 08:59 PM   #875
joexr
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Originally Posted by farmerstu View Post
so post up your creds. p.u.o.s.u.
Flamerstu and the peanut gallery. I'd forgotten you. Imagine that.Ever been over a 100 MPH STU? Didn't think so.
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Old 08-23-2013, 12:41 AM   #876
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Moore View Post
Maybe scan an old RRW or something. Anything to give you a little credibility. Right now you're just an internet crackpot.
Why did you use the word internet?
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Old 08-23-2013, 04:43 AM   #877
Jim Moore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joexr View Post
Maybe one day I'll have YOUR credibility and level of expertise. Everybody knows YOUR OPINION is the only one that matters , your being the resident WINDBAG and all.
To the extent you can "win" an internet discussion, I'm gonna declare victory on this one.
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Old 08-23-2013, 06:59 AM   #878
PFFOG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hippiebrian View Post
I...............
Again I say, there is enough for a new rider to be thinking about without adding additional unnecessary information. Like I said, I rode about 30 years without knowing what countersteering was (maybe 25 years, something like that) and the knowledge did nothing for my skills. It was a nice to know fact, but that was about it.

Said it in this thread months ago, the brain and its connective inputs, sight inner ear, make adjustments at lightening speed, and if it senses the input is creating negative results it quickly changes tact.

Like I said, we learned to walk without knowing anything about the muscles involved and whether that they needed to be contracted or relaxed at given points of our stride. In fact I still don't
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Old 08-23-2013, 07:10 AM   #879
farmerstu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joexr View Post
Flamerstu and the peanut gallery. I'd forgotten you. Imagine that.Ever been over a 100 MPH STU? Didn't think so.
well my dad can beat up your dad!

Idiot
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Old 08-23-2013, 07:33 AM   #880
MotoTex
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Recently I found a new (to me) way to explain it that was successful in getting the point across to another rider.

I had them imagine looking at the bike from the rear and explained how in order for the bike to fall to the left (if the CG remained fixed) the wheels would need to move to the right in relationship to the CG.

When riding, you steer to drive the bike's wheels out from under the CG in the opposite direction from which you want to lean/turn in order to put the CG to one side of the pivot point / tire contact patch.

As the wheels move out from under the CG in one direction the bike leans (falls) the opposite way (i.e.: the way you want to lean into the turn).

Maybe putting this here will help others wrap their head around the seemingly elusive concept of countersteering to initiate a turm.
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Old 08-23-2013, 07:59 AM   #881
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Moore View Post
To the extent you can "win" an internet discussion, I'm gonna declare victory on this one.
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Old 08-23-2013, 12:20 PM   #882
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
When getting the license here we have to do this "high speed" test (weave between cones at about 30 mph, make a tight u-turn, weave back and finish with a controlled emergency brake):



When my teacher told me about countersteering (and showed me by sitting behind me and push my elbows) the weaving got a lot easier. I think it's an excellent tip for new riders :)
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:13 PM   #883
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honest to god i am not making this up.
joexr said to to do some research on him.( mx#8, held a drag race record etc.) so i did a little goggle search , found him on a couple of other fourums, and these came up.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/98/joexr.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...398869937.jpg/
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Old 08-23-2013, 04:16 PM   #884
joexr
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Eh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by farmerstu View Post
honest to god i am not making this up.
joexr said to to do some research on him.( mx#8, held a drag race record etc.) so i did a little goggle search , found him on a couple of other fourums, and these came up.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/98/joexr.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...398869937.jpg/
That's pretty funny , but it's not me. Just what sort of websites do you usually frequent Flamerstu?
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Old 08-23-2013, 04:52 PM   #885
Fajita Dave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lnewqban View Post
How can we do that via Internet?
Maybe:
1) Lean your upper-body and push the hand-grip on the direction you want to turn?
2) Push harder to turn quickly?
3) Maybe lean your upper-body and push the hand-grip on the direction you want to straighten the bike up?
4) Push harder to straighten the bike up quickly or to negotiate a quick chicane?
These are the things you need to know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hippiebrian View Post
Keep it simple.

1) Take a safety course. You are not going to learn without practice.
2) Look where you want to go.
3) Practice. Practice quick turns, until you can do it without thinking.
4) Remember, it isn't a race. Don't ride faster than you are comfortable with. Period.
5) Ride your bike. A lot. Turn your head and watch where you are going. Have fun.
These are the things you need to do.


If you're to dumb or lazy to learn what the simple act of counter-steering does then you shouldn't be riding a motorcycle. Some people don't need to know how they're doing it (I didn't know about counter-steering for 12 years of motocross riding). However, there is NO EXCUSE not to learn it.

I was pretty fast on my local motocross track but actually learning about counter-steering and how motorcycles work in general made a huge difference in my riding. It helped me get even faster and more importantly I was wrecking much less on the track. When I did wreck then I actually understood why and how to fix it instead of not having any clue. It became more important when I got a sportbike because there is no way to turn it without a firm steering input.

Of course I already knew how to ride. This is how it went when I taught my wife who was a total noob. I told her about counter-steering briefly but I didn't want to overload her with things to think about. So I let it go without a real explanation and just let her ride. It was only her 2nd week of riding but she was still having trouble making tight turns and steering didn't look deliberate or controlled like it should. So I asked her if she started to feel counter-steering yet. Her reply was "I stopped using it; everything I used it I felt like I was going to fall over." Clearly that's a problem!!! Once I explained it fully that night and she understood it. We went back out to ride the next day and after getting over some nerves she had no problem what so ever with tight turns and her steering inputs looked deliberate like they should. She is NOT a dumb girl either (took nuclear physics in high school and graduated with a perfect GPS). Turning the handlebars the wrong way to turn is not a natural thing for someone to learn by "feel." Understanding why you need to turn the wrong way gives new riders the knowledge they need to practice and why they're doing it. After 3 weeks of my training, my wife passed the MSF course with a perfect score and rode my gsx-r600 another week later.
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Fajita Dave screwed with this post 08-23-2013 at 05:18 PM
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