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Old 01-09-2013, 02:25 AM   #4636
LocuL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kamanya View Post
Not sure if this should be in here, but here goes...

I am getting pretty pissed off with the ASO.

In this world of technology, we are forced into guessing what is happening for the whole stage. The closest we ever get is waypoint and checkpoint updates and sometimes side of the road sightings or snatches from teams, all seldom in real time. Then, a highly condensed version through various TV channels later in the day to get the visuals of what we guessed to have happened earlier.

I get that Rallying by its very nature, gives enormous advantage to a competitor who can get even the slightest info outside of what is in his roll book that his competitors don’t. I guess that info is the EPO of the rallying world. It seems there is almost a paranoiac effort to keep this out that is stilting the virtual spectators experience.

The technology is there for the members of the virtual stadium to not only follow closely, a dot/s of their choice on a map, but also the possibility for real time pictures from the bike/car/truck much like any other motor sport.

I have followed a team of adventure racers who pack everything they race with on their backs for 5 days and still, even in the wilds of the Australian outback or a snowstorm late at night on the top of a Scottish mountain, I could cheer them on from my home in Africa. Also, I could suffer the anguish of a slow moving or stopped dot, or worse, when the dot goes off course or is pulled from the course! They even have optional checkpoints where they can take pictures, pick up and leave messages for their fans to access as and when.

There has to be a solution somewhere between trying to keep people from accessing outside assistance and allowing us to join in the greatest motoring show on earth.

If some solution could be found, apart from making it even more addictive than it is to people who get “it”. It enables the deeper human stories to be told to a far wider audience. The spinoff is a win/win. More people watch, more people will sponsor, more people will want to compete and lastly a huge source of potential income to the competitors will be generated reducing the one major bugbear in participating in the Dakar – money.

So endeth my bleat, carry on.
As stupid it may sound i think that ASO has not seen the possibilities in this(yet). And they are not aware of the crowd/fanswho only can follow this on the internet. And we all know that the best place to follow this is the net. I agree and tend to think that ASO is a bit old In there thoughts of people only get there 5min update from tv in the evening. They are not exploiting the real opportunities in having a well defined and functional site. With a trustworthy live tracker and what not.
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:26 AM   #4637
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Originally Posted by ararat View Post
kamanya, in the 90's..... dont you think?
I hear you, though I don't agree.

I get, some prefer what you have said and like the "mists".

Me, I'm sadly a bit ADD and want instant gratification, in dolby surround sound and IMAX, from my work desk dammit!
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:28 AM   #4638
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woohoo caught up!!! lost in the dunes there for a while and was stationary for at least half an hour due to an unknown technical problem, but got here.... just need to go back and watch the vid's i bookmarked...
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:29 AM   #4639
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Quote:
Originally Posted by too old View Post
It does exist - Irritrack and it is used in just about every other high profile international Rally, except maybe the Oz Safari

Yes people know where you are on track, but not sure how that can be conveyed to the rider and enable them to adjust what they is doing with respect to it - so yes spend a few $ of the millions and let's have it as a greater 'spectator" sport.

Even Irritack can be annoying as you only get position updates every 2 mins, but the F5 predictions based on this are manic but beyond that we would be only real time tracking

Now theres an idea - Jack Bauer had it
Iritrack was online in Moroccos, 6 minute interval IIRC, also in the current Africa Eco Race.
We had a similar system (for public viewing) in Serres, and that was "broadcast" with a 15 minute delay, to avoid anyone whipping out their phone and calling their mate if lost on the course... I'm pretty sure you can adjust the position relay delay by even more if one so wishes
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:33 AM   #4640
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Originally Posted by cvlighthouse View Post
Is it me, or does the Hummer look way more cumbersome than the bughlies?
i was thinking that the other day... compared to the buglies and the girly cars, and the pickups, it just looks like the wrong car to be racing over dunes in..... looks great when it's flying on the fast open stuff but in the tight tracks and steep dunes sometimes it looks like someone has accidentally taken their family wagon somewhere they shouldn't....
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:34 AM   #4641
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodovitch View Post
Iritrack was online in Moroccos, 6 minute interval IIRC, also in the current Africa Eco Race.
We had a similar system (for public viewing) in Serres, and that was "broadcast" with a 15 minute delay, to avoid anyone whipping out their phone and calling their mate if lost on the course... I'm pretty sure you can adjust the position relay delay by even more if one so wishes
i'd settle for their online trackers working properly at the moment....
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:39 AM   #4642
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Is this some kind of conspiracy? Anyone here involved with this?

Quote:
There is a discussion somewhere on the advrider forum (by people who know a thing or two about the Dakar) which points to teams spying on competition and holding their cards back until they really need to use them. Some speculation also that the infringement in the Hummer inflation system was possibly known to others for sometime but only kicked up when RG threatened X-raid for the win....
Found: http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/sho...pa-Peru/page21
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:43 AM   #4643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el ponkin View Post
just before the racing starts thanks for all the feeds and stories, f5 has been my saviour i am currently recovering from back surgery and laid up at home for the whole of dakar but the family have me well set up, i can’t sit at the puter so we had to get inventive. French tv coverage kicks off at 03:40 brisbane, australia time so it is an early wake up to watch that for an hour and then catch up on the 50 + overnight pages on adv before eurosport kicks in. Temps have been around 35 deg c here so it is just like dakar, just need a bit of fesh fesh to sprinkle around the crib.


the picture is taken from the bar and just to the left is the toilet/shower so with the cordless keyboard and mouse i can f5 and scroll adv forum even whilst sitting on the dunnie (can) or whilst topping up with pain killers at the bar. Walking stick also has stubbie cooler for obligatory physio walks. No problem guessing who i support !! The bike is close at hand for onsite brainstorming of mechanical issues apollo 13 style. Just hope the bulb holds out in the projector otherwise i will have to request a facebook initiated paypal fund to purchase one and get it dropped off mid stage by a hummer, who happened to know i might need one and packed a spare, while i wait patiently beside the bike in my socks.
faark knows what i will do next year after tasting 24/7 saturation this year. Therapy ?? “hi my names andy and i am addicted to dakar”, “sorry, you have drank from the f5 firehose there is no cure, you’re f****d”.


.

that is legendary el ponkin
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:43 AM   #4644
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Ponkin View Post
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]

Shit, so that's what a full factory Guerlain Chicherit level F5irehose equivalent entry looks like!
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:47 AM   #4645
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodovitch View Post
Iritrack was online in Moroccos, 6 minute interval IIRC, also in the current Africa Eco Race.
We had a similar system (for public viewing) in Serres, and that was "broadcast" with a 15 minute delay, to avoid anyone whipping out their phone and calling their mate if lost on the course... I'm pretty sure you can adjust the position relay delay by even more if one so wishes
I thought we had much a much quicker feed update for Morocco - but what the hell, its about now now
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:48 AM   #4646
orlando_orange
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Ponkin View Post



.
nice!! do you think if i print this picture out and put it on the coffee table where the missus has currently piled her stacks of shabby chic interior decorating books she'll take the hint?
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:48 AM   #4647
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Technology vs rules vs the policing of them...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strong Bad View Post
JC has always been slated as a support rider (aka "water carrier"). Yesterday he had issues and Robby Gordon actually carried part out to him. Which begs the question: How did Honda know where JC was and what parts he needed?
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Originally Posted by Strong Bad View Post
Thoughts: Gordon does not carry HRC spares "just in case". That is absurd at best.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Strong Bad View Post
Hello Johnny..??? Yeah, hey look......Kellon & I have had a bit of a problem.........could you ride back out here and help me put this thing back on it's wheels???

BTW, maybe HogWild could tell us what the penalty is for communication with support during the special???
I had a conversation about just this the other day with John Mitchinson... RRUK moto-tinker extraordiaire, desert rat and all round gentleman rascal...



Dr John on right at the 2011 Tuareg... the day after he "rescued" KEVA Kent from a concussive crash in the maroccan desert... and here on one of his awesome 690 Raid creations.

Now the point of this post isn't to single out RG or HRC... because - let's be honest - there are many, most (if not almost all) of the competitors at DAKAr over the last few years who break or at least bend the rules as they are written, in terms of "oiutside assistance", illicit communication, telephones/gps assistance etc. etc. etc.

Dare I say, if you applied the rules to the letter of the law, you could exclude at least two thirds of the field on those grounds without too much drama... but it becomes ridiculously pointless AND an administrative impossibilty to police and enforce.

In todays world where gps/satellite technology and the communications network allows an individual to make a telephone call from one barren wasteland, on one side of the globe, to a wall street office several time zones removed, give a GPS co ordinate, and have the person sitting behind the desk use google earth to pin point them, call the bivouac and give a verbal (and text message sent by cell phone) to the team personel on the ground, describing EXACTLY where they are, and even give them directions on how to get to them (from where the bivouac is) and what the problem (mechanical) is.

I mean, even here at the omnipotent ADVRider f5 fortress, you have inmates making world wide donation pledges via the net and communication with the bivouac to source tyres, engines... whatever on behalf of riders who are still out on the course with drama's, in a (well intentioned) effort to keep them in the event... but really, it perverts the whole idea of the race. "Yeah, I did Malle Moto's DAKAR 2012... all on my own... oh, yeah... with support from the f5 network, Marty's hardware and plumbing supplies in Ontario, the kind donations of several hundred annonymous benefactors and the services of DHL worldwide..."

It all pretty much makes a mockery of the concept of man/machine against the elements - no outside assistance - as the TSO original theme of "Le dakar" was... and to be honest in 2012, it is probably unrealistic to think we can go back there (unless another event with these principles is created to take the place), because DAKAR has become a business... a product... and like any product, to be commercially viable it needs to keep pace with the times, sponsor expectations market demands... etc.

As I see it there are two ways to go... if the "cheating" is to be weeded out (almost impossible) you could go back to the old days... just a map roll, tripmeter and a magnetic compass... put a spot tracker on the bikes (tracker) and give each rider a locked telephone (emergency situation only - time penalties if used for other than "emergency" call)... 1979 with improved saftey that the 21st century affords...


OR

Just make it open slather... let them have their phones and GPS positioning systems, call to the bivouac for care package etc. whatever...

Like the doping thing in the olympics or cycling (Tour d'France... boy does ASO have some headaches on their plate? ), maybe the times and technology (science) has outpaced the original (innocent amateur) ideals of what the sport has become today... at least in the upper echelons?

Just let the rules read "no holds barred" and let them go at it... it is increasingly hard (impossible) to police the regulations as far as communication/outside service; to do so becomes an incredibly convoluted, time consuming excercise in absurdity... and the "cheaters" will still cheat... I mean it's impossible to police everyone inconjunction with the event for carry a cell phone or device with GPS capability.

Once upon a time the remoteness of Africa and the limited communication network CREATED a secure/level playing field (to some extent) and the notion of "outside service" was largely self policing... but today in 21st century sth America; a whole other ball game.

Bluebulls post from yesterday was a poignant reminder that the DAKAR has outgrown it's humble original ideal... maybe it is time to let iot go forward and become the Desert equivalent of F1... multiple day, sprint stages, on course live coverage and timing/tracking, pit stops during the day, VIP hospitality suites in the bivouac and flatbills and motorhomes for everyone!

... but what (how) can you create something (else) - for the everyday sportsmen and amateurs - where the original values are still the prime motivation...?

Maybe the grass roots events are the way to go for the "enthusiasts" out there... while DAKAR and the FIM CCR can go the F1 route and cater to the factories and well financed elite?
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:48 AM   #4648
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Stage 4,Dakar site

Who is that!!!!
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:51 AM   #4649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Ponkin View Post
Just before the racing starts thanks for all the feeds and stories, F5 has been my saviour I am currently recovering from back surgery and laid up at home for the whole of Dakar but the family have me well set up, I can’t sit at the puter so we had to get inventive. French TV coverage kicks off at 03:40 Brisbane, Australia time so it is an early wake up to watch that for an hour and then catch up on the 50 + overnight pages on ADV before Eurosport kicks in. Temps have been around 35 deg C here so it is just like Dakar, just need a bit of fesh fesh to sprinkle around the crib.


The picture is taken from the bar and just to the left is the toilet/shower so with the cordless keyboard and mouse I can F5 and scroll ADV forum even whilst sitting on the dunnie (can) or whilst topping up with pain killers at the bar. Walking stick also has stubbie cooler for obligatory physio walks. No problem guessing who I support !! The bike is close at hand for onsite brainstorming of mechanical issues Apollo 13 style. Just hope the bulb holds out in the projector otherwise I will have to request a facebook initiated paypal fund to purchase one and get it dropped off mid stage by a hummer, who happened to know I might need one and packed a spare, while I wait patiently beside the bike in my socks.
Faark knows what I will do next year after tasting 24/7 saturation this year. Therapy ?? “hi my names Andy and I am addicted to Dakar”, “sorry, you have drank from the F5 firehose there is no cure, you’re f****d”.


.
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:51 AM   #4650
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Originally Posted by cvlighthouse View Post
Is this some kind of conspiracy? Anyone here involved with this?



Found: http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/sho...pa-Peru/page21
Certainly leads to a few conspiracy theories eh

And contrary to another comment earlier, I would think the ASOles are well aware of adv and the very well informed posters in this and other threads.
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