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Old 03-15-2013, 11:28 AM   #46
Winkelfinger
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I like the "shake, rattle 'n roll" idea, might aswell use that as an excuse for a party ;-)


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Old 03-17-2013, 09:18 PM   #47
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Permatex 56521 Gets My Approval or Third Time is the Charm!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Figielski View Post
Hey JC,
First, did you thoroughly clean out all gas from the threaded hole in the flange and clean the threads with carb cleaner or the like? This is important. Then you need to coat the threads with the sealant and allow it to become tacky before threading the fitting into the flange. After that let it set up for 24 hours before exposing it to gas or running the bike.
The other thing to check is if you actually have cracks running down into the threads on the flange. If so you may need to use a heavier duty sealant. Either Permatex 56521 or even JB weld. If you run out of the sealnt we provided the Permatex is a good alternative. Hope this helps,
Mike
I'll save you the blow by blow, but two attempts using the GASOILA sealant included with the collar made the timing of Mike's suggestion to try the 56521 sealant a much appreciated update that made my third try a success, so far! A 300 mile ride, and still dry as a bone!

Once I cleaned out the green sealant (q-tips and toothpicks were my tools of choice), I used alcohol as my prep for the Permatex 56521 based on the suggestion on the blister pack to use Permatex Surface Prep Activator. You might want to use the real deal if you are dealing with cold temps in your neck of the woods? "Reduces fixture time to 5 minutes", says Permatex. Otherwise, "fixture time is about 4 hours and is fully cured within 24 hours". I doubled that curing time to 48 hours before testing my work.

The 56521 sealant does not tack up, even after sitting out for several days now - as an experiment. I did put three lines of sealant on the female threads perpendicular to those threads, not any wider than the width of the toothpick. Otherwise, much of the sealant seems to strip off the male threads as they are threaded into the female threads of the plastic flange, and pushes out the top of the connection. It would probably be alright to count on the seal of the first few threads unless you have a crack that goes into the threads as was my experience.

"This sealant is not recommended for plastic" (or rubber). I'll let you know if my success should sour, but I am more than hopeful!

If there is anyone in the North Dallas area that would like to use some of my sealant, let me know.
Hth. ~Jeff


Positive Update 8-5-2013: "Almost six months and several miles later, the third try is still holding in the Texas heat", said Lat in a whisper with fingers crossed from his prayer rug.
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Old 04-19-2013, 10:40 AM   #48
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Just completed this procedure on '08 GSA

A couple of notes:

1. I placed the bike on the center stand and left the tank on the bike and removed the top gas tank plastic cover (you have to remove the fuel filler cap first) to provide more working room.

2. Tank was half full of fuel...no issues.

3. Once I installed the female metal QD fittings I placed a folded up paper towel over the newly installed assy to keep the fuel dribbles from the hose from splattering the area as I wrestled off the male QD fitting from the hose.

4. After 32,000 miles my plastic flanges were just starting to crack - hopefully this PM will solve any future issues.

5. Based on notes in this thread I used the Permatex 59214 to seal the female QD in place. After installation I left the assy along for the four hour setup period, then re-assembled the bike. I did not crank it up until after the 24 hour full cure period. So far - no leaks.

6. I used a 7/32" ignition box wrench on the hose clamp nut as supplied by BBY (along with the 2.5mm allen key).

7. I used a KD spark plug boot tool to grab the fuel hose when removing the plastic male fitting, worked great.

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Old 04-21-2013, 10:02 AM   #49
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repair on my '05 GS

Although something always seems to go wrong when I try to do a simple repair myself, I was convinced by JVB and others that replacing the plastic QDs as well as installing the flange clamp was the correct thing to do. So with more than a little trepidation, I proceeded.

Because I understood the right side to be less critical and more tolerant of user mistakes, I did it first. Easier access; less pressure to leak. I was glad I did because getting the male off does take some effort, and there is less slack and room on the left/pump side.

The first time I did the pump side (yes, 1st time) I had a subsequent leak. I am confident that this was only because I did not tighten the female QD enough - I was too afraid of over tightening. After removing and cleaning everything again, I applied the flange clamp, snugging lightly. Then I carefully hand-screwed the QD into the flange, counting the turns until it required effort to continue. Then I removed, applied sealant (the beemerboneyard stuff that I had not used up), waited till it was really tacky, then hand screwed the same number of turns. Then I tightened 3/4 of a turn more with wrench. Finally I snugged up the clamp another turn of the bolt. I did wait a full 24-36 hours before starting it up.

I've had no further leaks and am cautiously optimistic (but I've only put maybe 100 miles on the bike so far).

-ceej
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Old 04-26-2013, 01:11 PM   #50
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Could a liquid gasket be used to seal the threads?
http://www.permatex.com/products/pro...er-grey-detail
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Old 04-26-2013, 01:40 PM   #51
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I guess you could give 'er a whirl and see? I have several weeks/miles on the fix Mike suggested, the 56521 product, and I don't doubt it is a long term fix!

The only question I would have with the product you are considering, G - Will it hold to pressure???

Btw, the 56521 does not set up - ever. So, immediate assembly makes it an easier hurry up and wait kinda thang for "the fix/cure". ~Jeff
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Old 04-26-2013, 02:07 PM   #52
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I ordered a clamp from BB and installed it on the '08 GS. At first I could not get it all the way down on the plastic flange due to a couple of plastic posts close to the plastic flange. I had to grind down the collar a bit so it would slip down between the plastic pins and the flange. No issue in doing this, but thought I'd mention it.
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Old 04-26-2013, 05:59 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lat View Post
I guess you could give 'er a whirl and see? I have several weeks/miles on the fix Mike suggested, the 56521 product, and I don't doubt it is a long term fix!

The only question I would have with the product you are considering, G - Will it hold to pressure???

Btw, the 56521 does not set up - ever. So, immediate assembly makes it an easier hurry up and wait kinda thang for "the fix/cure". ~Jeff
I don't know- this is why I'm asking. I want to do the fix tomorrow at Jim's tech day, but I'll need to ride back home without waiting for hours.
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Old 04-26-2013, 07:58 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genka View Post
I don't know- this is why I'm asking. I want to do the fix tomorrow at Jim's tech day, but I'll need to ride back home without waiting for hours.
I think it will be fine, and no prolonged wait.

Jim
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Old 05-01-2013, 06:54 AM   #55
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I did the replacement with much appreciated help from Jim and it leaked. Yesterday I took everything apart, cleaned with isopropyl alcohol and sealed with Permatex 59214- the only choice available locally. I tightened just a tad more than Jim did for me on Saturday. I let it stand overnight- couldn't wait any longer because I commute. This morning the disconnect leaked again. Now I'm sitting in the office smelling of gas. Not sure what to try next. A Teflon tape?
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Old 05-01-2013, 07:17 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genka View Post
I did the replacement with much appreciated help from Jim and it leaked. Yesterday I took everything apart, cleaned with isopropyl alcohol and sealed with Permatex 59214- the only choice available locally. I tightened just a tad more than Jim did for me on Saturday. I let it stand overnight- couldn't wait any longer because I commute. This morning the disconnect leaked again. Now I'm sitting in the office smelling of gas. Not sure what to try next. A Teflon tape?
I hate to say it but if you don't wait for the sealant to cure it will probably leak. i am not familiar with Permatex 59214 but a quick Google search brought up the specs:

PRODUCT DESCRIPTION
Permatex High Temperature Thread Sealant is a medium
strength anaerobic sealant with PTFE for tapered pipe threads.
This sealing compound is of a white, creamy paste
consistency. The high lubricating properties of this compound
prevents galling on pipe threads and fittings. It will provide
immediate low pressure sealing and allow for the readjustment
of fittings shortly after assembly. After 72 hours the joint is
sealed to pipe burst pressure. This product has a medium
solvent resistance and will withstand temperatures to 400F
(204C).

72 hours for full strength on that one and only medium solvent resistance.
I have used the Gasolia we supply with the QD kits and also Permatex 56521 at least a dozen times and either sealed the 1st time each time. Thorough cleaning and gas removal before applying and allowing enough set up time (min 24 hours before pressurizing the system) are the key. Trying to short cut that will likely result in leaks. Not really any way around it I'm afraid.
Mike
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:31 AM   #57
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When I replaced mine at JVB's, I removed, cleaned, coated the replacment's threads, let it sit for a bit, then installed, either before or after lunch. Time from coating to riding was about 3-4 hours.

No leaks.
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:00 AM   #58
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Mike, thanks for your input. Permatex says that suggested applications for 59214 are " Head bolts into through holes, oil PSI sending units and sensors, oil and coolant lines, fuel fittings, rear axle fill plug, brake and power steering fittings". Apparently it is not as strong as 56521, but is still strong enough- "When fully cured, they seal to the burst strength of most piping systems." Both 56521 and 59214 are not recommended for plastic. If they work for everyone else they should work for me too. What do you think, can I try a Teflon tape to get me through the work week and change to the sealer on the weekend?
On a side note, I found that it is difficult to get a wrench on the installed female QD because the locking mechanism gets in the way. That mechanism can be removed by pushing the pin down and sliding the locking tab outside. Just need to pay attention to the springs.
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:12 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoVa Rider View Post
When I replaced mine at JVB's, I removed, cleaned, coated the replacment's threads, let it sit for a bit, then installed, either before or after lunch. Time from coating to riding was about 3-4 hours.

No leaks.
I have an idea why it leaked. When I went to Jim's I left the reinforcing collar at home, so we replaced the QDs without it. When I got home there were no leaks. I installed the collar the same day and didn't ride ofr day and a half. Maybe installing the collar somehow damaged the seal. Also it could be an issue with tolerances. My QD feels loose when I'm screwing it in.
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:38 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genka View Post
I did the replacement with much appreciated help from Jim and it leaked. Yesterday I took everything apart, cleaned with isopropyl alcohol and sealed with Permatex 59214- the only choice available locally. I tightened just a tad more than Jim did for me on Saturday. I let it stand overnight- couldn't wait any longer because I commute. This morning the disconnect leaked again. Now I'm sitting in the office smelling of gas. Not sure what to try next. A Teflon tape?
Did you add the clamp? Tightening it too much without the clamp will cause the cracks to spread and leak.

Jim

Edit, nevermind. IMHO, take it apart, clean the threads, add some fuel rated teflon style tape and screw it back in. I have seen this done as a temporary (1 year) fix.

PS The unit you replace with metal was made by the same company as the BBY piece, same dimensions. You can interchange metal to plastic, male to female, so they should be the same exactly.
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