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Old 04-11-2013, 06:11 PM   #31
knobbyjoe
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touché Mortimersickle...One more thing, need a qualified educational type to write the grant proposal for their engineering school.
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Old 04-11-2013, 06:40 PM   #32
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touché Mortimersickle...One more thing, need a qualified educational type to write the grant proposal for their engineering school.
NOW we're getting somewhere...

I think I'll load the tires with UHD's, WD-40, and SLIME and call it good..
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:42 AM   #33
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Don't let the drama lamas scare you, I have 70k on this bike alone with UHD's and never a problem like 99% of the others that use them.

With everything else being equal how does a UHD tube generate more heat than a thinny?
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Old 04-12-2013, 11:21 PM   #34
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I will also add that I used one particular UHD tube with 2 hot patches on it for over 20,000 miles. No issue. I'm not saying you cant have a high speed blowout on pavement, but my best guess is that low pressure was a more likely culprit than the thick tube.
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Old 04-14-2013, 03:39 AM   #35
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So the question is why are you running UHD inner tubes? they don't help against conventional punctures and may help resist pinch flats. So the only time to use them would be low'ish speed xcountry running at low tyre pressures, yet lots of people seem to use them for street use where presumably they are being run at high speed and high pressure.

The main disadvantages are that they get much hotter than conventional tubes (unless pumped up hard so no tyre flex) which may cause them to blow out, weigh more (more unsprung weight) and more unwieldy to work with.
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Old 04-14-2013, 05:49 AM   #36
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The advantage of a international forum is in the numbers- they stack up interestingly against theory. Leveraging experiences help us gather data with which to make our own decisions.

Foe me, of course if I were riding only on the street, I'd not worry about flats.

But I ride both, with a strong preference for remote off-road, but often ride the highway to get there. Some of that road work includes stretches of freeway that crosses hot deserts.

One needs only one hot-weather tire change without shade to promise oneself to take all possible measure, however small, to avoid a repeat event.

I run the UHDs.
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Old 04-14-2013, 08:17 AM   #37
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The main disadvantages are that they get much hotter than conventional tubes
Why? Proof or internet myth? Granted I don't live in a hot climate but I've yet to feel a diff in tire carcass temp with UHD's compared to thinnys. I assume that's where people are feeling this "extra heat" or are they doing some type of internal temp measurement?
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Old 04-14-2013, 01:37 PM   #38
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So the question is why are you running UHD inner tubes?....

The main disadvantages are that they get much hotter than conventional tubes (unless pumped up hard so no tyre flex) which may cause them to blow out, weigh more (more unsprung weight) and more unwieldy to work with.
Not sure you meant this for me (or the OP)...but I am not running UHD's - just trying to figure out if its the right way to go.

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...But I ride both, with a strong preference for remote off-road, but often ride the highway to get there. Some of that road work includes stretches of freeway that crosses hot deserts....

I run the UHDs.
This describes most closely what my riding goals are for the "X" and the next couple years and I tend to think in the same terms as far as pros/cons. It seem like trouble arises with UHD's running higher speeds and low pressures on pavement, whereas if you increase the pressure for the road/higher speeds, it keeps temps down that are created via the tube slipping at lower pressures? Did I just answer my own question then?

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Why? Proof or internet myth? Granted I don't live in a hot climate but I've yet to feel a diff in tire carcass temp with UHD's compared to thinnys. I assume that's where people are feeling this "extra heat" or are they doing some type of internal temp measurement?
I would interested in seeing data as well...maybe not a thesis as suggested above.. (I deal somewhat regularly with statistics, so I have a good idea of what it takes to reach significant, statistically sound conclusions from data). It ain't gonna happen on a forum without some very careful and consistent data collection (probably a stretch at that)..
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Old 04-14-2013, 03:34 PM   #39
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We run them front and rear in Maya in CA heat with no issues, we are also loaded two up with house and contents.

Just changed the MT21 front tire at Moto Mundo in Antigua with 10646 km on it and the tube looked like new.

Let you know what the rear looks like in Bogota when we change the rear with a K60 Heidi on.
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Old 04-14-2013, 08:55 PM   #40
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:57 PM   #41
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So the question is why are you running UHD inner tubes? they don't help against conventional punctures
Yes they do. I've had cactus needles puncture UHD tubes and never known until I've changed the tire, I've had similar needles destroy normal tubes.
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Old 04-15-2013, 01:47 AM   #42
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No real data here just my own usage....

I'll do about anything to not get a flat offroad so my solution is to run Bridgestone UHD's and don't lower the air pressure off road, just leave them at 25-ish psi all the time. I have wide 17 and 19 tires (BMW G650 XCountry) and no rim locks but I'll ride 80 on highway and personally like the tradeoff and don't miss running the lower air offroad even in a little sand but certainly don't miss getting snakebites in rocks.

Now I don't know if anybody thinks 25 is "high" but sure as hell ain't 15, that would be stupid for me without rimlocks anyhow.
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Old 04-15-2013, 03:57 AM   #43
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Yes they do. I've had cactus needles puncture UHD tubes and never known until I've changed the tire, I've had similar needles destroy normal tubes.

So an item that has penetrated a stiff tyre carcass is than stopped by a soft rubber tube - good luck with that theory.

The value or otherwise of UHDs is very hard to prove. I have just ridden 5,800kms through the Aussie outback on a fully laden 990 with conventional tubes, along with a similarly laden friend on a F800GS also on conventional tubes, 90% dirt roads and tracks, and neither of us had a puncture. Does this prove that conventional tubes are the greatest thing since sliced bread - no. If we had been on UHDs would we now be singing the praises of UHDs - I don't know.

The only true comparison I guess would be a statistically meaningful sample (say 10 riders) on same bikes, weight, time, tracks, etc, and one set on conventional tubes the other set on UHDs, and see whether a statistically meaningful result ensues – ie. 90% of the conventionals got punctures while only 10% of the UHDs did.

Is there such an experiment? I haven't seen one. So we rely on anecdotal evidence mixed in with a healthy dose of common sense. Commonsense says that if something has penetrated the tyre it 'in most cases' isn’t going to be stopped by a much softer tube. Can UHDs help with pinch flats? Hard to say but seems possible and there seems to be some anecdotal support for it.

The downside is heat generated, the thicker the rubber and the more the flex (the lower pressure the tyre) the hotter the tube will get (the extreme example being Michelin Bib Mousse Flat-Proof Competition Foam Tube where even the manufacturer doesn’t recommend sustained high speed running and competitors using these replace them at regular intervals) and they're heavier, increasing (unsprung) weight (worse if your also carrying spare tubes) and just unwieldy to work with.

My thoughts on this are that for relatively low speed, low pressure dirt road and track riding (averaging 80km/hr or less) where you might be running lower pressures for comfort and grip there is a case for thicker tubes which may help mitigate pinch flats. I don’t think I’d like to run these at high speed for extended periods of time. I guess the conundrum than is the slab sections between the dirt sections – what to do then? Frankly, I’ve gotten away with conventionals to date, so they work for me. YMMV
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syzygy9 screwed with this post 04-15-2013 at 05:34 AM Reason: splelling
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Old 04-15-2013, 05:53 AM   #44
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So an item that has penetrated a stiff tyre carcass is than stopped by a soft rubber tube - good luck with that theory.
That's not what I said, I specifically stated punctured (meaning cactus needle went through).

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The value or otherwise of UHDs is very hard to prove.
Not really. Take two tubes normal and UHD, blow them up to the same PSI you would use on a ~400lbs bike and put a needle in each. Report back about what happens. You can do the same with (thick and thin) balloons.

The reality (for me and where I ride) isn't that they reduce the number of punctures, it's that they reduce my time in having to stop and fix every puncture.

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I don’t think I’d like to run these at high speed for extended periods of time. I guess the conundrum than is the slab sections between the dirt sections – what to do then?
I've personally run them on 1k road days (miles not km) through the TX/NM/AZ & NV heat, not had an issue. BUT, I do believe the "theory" behind head build up and ultimate failure, so I'd wouldn't recommend it. Although I think there are ways to reduce the risk.
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Old 04-15-2013, 07:45 AM   #45
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I must be missing something here; are you saying that if you 'puncture' a UHD tube (ie. push something like a needle all the way through) it doesn't go flat, self seals or something? I've never heard that before.
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