2005 R1200GS ABS and Speedometer down

jbrobiker · 08-03-2009, 07:00 AM

I've read what appears to be thousands of threads on ABS issues but believe my issue is fairly unique:
I have a 2005 R1200GS with 12,000 miles - mostly highway and no off-road (sadly).

after the bike warms up (temp gauge centered and normal) i loose almost simultanenously ABS as well as the speedometer. this accompanied with the "break failure: light flashing and a solid red triangle indicator light. When i start the bike, when cold, i never get the ABS lights immediately, always after the bike warms up.

I can always reset the ABS by turning the bike off and restarting. Speedo comes back too, but the full ABS-Speedo returns in a short distance, when only a month ago it happened very seldomly. so the problem has gotten progressively worse.

One other clue to the mystery is that sometimes, when i restart to clear the error and reset the abs, i can hear the modulator whine without applying the breaks - but the sound that would be usual (and normal) to applying the breaks.

I did drop the bike a year ago. right side. checked the right hand-shield and it is aligned and not keeping the breaks from moving freely. I also looked (without taking anything apart) the break and wheel speed sensor wires - at least i believe this is what they are. foot break sensor also seems good. on startup my break lites are not activated - only when i pull/step on the breakes.

I know i have residual pressure and can, if breaking when this occurs, feel the abs drop out in the hand break. i still have plenty of hand break and when breaking with both with hand and foot simultaneously, i can get the rear break to grab quite well. rear break alone is spongy - i'd need to stand on it to get stop.

I brought the bike to BMW Manhattan and they told me the ABS modulator (pump) was out, but when i asked for the readout, it was not available.
ultimately, i am reluctant to blow $2400 on a pump and be unsure this is indeed the problem. The fact that the Speedometer is out suggests to me that, though tied into the modulator, the problem may be electrical somewhere else.

I'd appreciate someone's help

JetSpeed · 08-03-2009, 09:38 AM

There is a fault detected in the ABS system when the self diagnostics is ran when you first start to ride away, but I agree it could be many things not just the ABS module.
I've seen the modules get killed by jump-starting.

jbrobiker · 08-03-2009, 09:59 AM

Actually, i don't get the fault indicator light(s) when i first roll - they only come on after I am moving for a bit and until the bike is hot.

2much2do · 08-03-2009, 10:43 AM

I have had something very similar with mine, an '05 with about 51k miles. Mine has only done it once, but the symptoms sounded the same. Both my speedo and rear servo brakes failed. When I tried to troubleshoot the problem, it wouldn't do it again. It seems to me like it is likely a problem with the speed sensor on the rear wheel.

Hopefully some of the more mechanically inclined folks on this board will chime in. I don't know how the rear wheel speed sensor works or what its possible mechanisms of failure would be. I don't understand how an ABS unit failure should affect the speedometer.

JetSpeed · 08-03-2009, 02:57 PM

When there is a fault detected in the ABS system the speedometer is killed in an effort to not only alert the rider but demand attention.

The rear speed-sensor is a magnetic pick-up device in the final drive, it could be faulty or more likely collected so much metallic wear particles that it doesn't operate properly, I would remove it, clean it and see what happens.

GB · 08-03-2009, 03:17 PM

Remove the speed sensor / ABS sensor from the flange side of the rear wheel, clean the magnetic tip and reinstall and see if it clears things up.

Zoef zoef · 08-04-2009, 03:23 AM

You may also check all the electrical connections for the ABS, especially at the ABS unit (take connectors off and clean them). My R1150 of 2003 developed a similar problem (readout indicated rear sensor problem), and was fixed in this manner.

Grad · 08-04-2009, 08:42 AM

If you have a LOT of crud on that sensor, you might want to give your rear wheel a wiggle too to make sure you don't have a more significant issue.

2much2do · 08-04-2009, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetSpeed

When there is a fault detected in the ABS system the speedometer is killed in an effort to not only alert the rider but demand attention.

I would love to provide EMT services for whoever decided that was a good idea. If he had a cut and needed stitches, I'd bust his arm just to make sure he went to the hospital right away and got his cut taken care of.

CheckerdD · 08-04-2009, 11:54 AM

Just in case you did not understand the highly criptic responses. One of the symptoms of a failing final drive is metal on the speed sensor. This will screw up the speedo. Yours goes to 0. When mine went, it headed to 150 MPH at a stop sign then slowed to 0 going down the road. You don't need to take the bike to the dealer just yet. Take off the rear wheel. Look through the brake disk. Do you see that wire that goes to the inside of the upper part of the final drive? Thats the speed sensor. Unscrew the thing that holds it in and examine the inside. If its covered with metal flakes, someone must have forgotten to change the FD oil and its well on the way to a failure. Then take the bike to the dealer and hope they will convince BMW NA to cover it even though the warranty has expired. If it's not covered with metal flakes come back and someone will think of something else. Dave

jbrobiker · 08-05-2009, 01:35 PM

Hey Grad (reponse #8) how much play in the rear wheel is normal? Can I assume there would be a tiny bit (almost undetectable) amount of play or no play at all?

drdata · 08-05-2009, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbrobiker

Hey Grad (reponse #8) how much play in the rear wheel is normal? Can I assume there would be a tiny bit (almost undetectable) amount of play or no play at all?

Yes. should be barley perceptable, more so when cold.

jbrobiker · 08-09-2009, 02:32 PM

Hi CheckerD (response #10)
thanks for your input.

so i pulled the rear wheel as well as the rear wheel speed sensor. it had some very fine filings, but nothing gritty - and from my point of view, did not seem like a big deal.
i reinstalled all, pulled the front sensor and cleaned it as well.

started the bike, let it warm until the heat centered out and took a ride.
ABS light turned off after the first rotation of the pull out test. All normal so far.
1/2 mile later Speedo and ABS failure. all residual pressure. good resonse on the hand brake. spongy on the foot, but can get the rear to grab if i coordinate it with, and slightly after pulling the hand brake.

Would it be fair to say i've ruled out the speed sensors?

Another thread recommended pulling the tank to check out the ABS pump connections. i'm a bit nervous to do this - seems pretty involved.

Any other ideas?

Thanks everyone for your help thus far.

dappy · 03-23-2011, 02:53 AM

Hello mate, I know its a long time since your post but I have exactly the same issue you seemed to have. Did it get sorted?

Would appreciate advice if you did

Cheers!

jbrobiker · 03-23-2011, 07:51 AM

I did finally figure it out.

ABS modulator pump.
Sadly (predictably?) it failed just after the 3 year warranty was up.
$2,400 US later, it works like a charm now.

I had BMW save the pump for me in hopes of taking it apart to see if I can determine what the failure was. If i find anything, I'll let you know.

good luck!

08-03-2009, 09:38 AM	#2
JetSpeed ATAC Kfir Hack Joined: Nov 2007 Location: KPHF / Newport News Oddometer: 450	There is a fault detected in the ABS system when the self diagnostics is ran when you first start to ride away, but I agree it could be many things not just the ABS module. I've seen the modules get killed by jump-starting. __________________ Good Judgment Comes From Experience, Experience Comes From Bad Judgment.

08-03-2009, 10:43 AM	#4
2much2do Motorpsychlist Joined: Oct 2005 Location: Sweet Home, Oregon Oddometer: 167	I have had something very similar with mine, an '05 with about 51k miles. Mine has only done it once, but the symptoms sounded the same. Both my speedo and rear servo brakes failed. When I tried to troubleshoot the problem, it wouldn't do it again. It seems to me like it is likely a problem with the speed sensor on the rear wheel. Hopefully some of the more mechanically inclined folks on this board will chime in. I don't know how the rear wheel speed sensor works or what its possible mechanisms of failure would be. I don't understand how an ABS unit failure should affect the speedometer. __________________ Let not the one who puts on his armor boast like the one who takes it off. -1 Kings 20:11

08-03-2009, 02:57 PM	#5
JetSpeed ATAC Kfir Hack Joined: Nov 2007 Location: KPHF / Newport News Oddometer: 450	When there is a fault detected in the ABS system the speedometer is killed in an effort to not only alert the rider but demand attention. The rear speed-sensor is a magnetic pick-up device in the final drive, it could be faulty or more likely collected so much metallic wear particles that it doesn't operate properly, I would remove it, clean it and see what happens. __________________ Good Judgment Comes From Experience, Experience Comes From Bad Judgment.

08-03-2009, 03:17 PM	#6
GB Mod Squad Joined: Aug 2002 Location: Toronto, ON Oddometer: 53,466	Remove the speed sensor / ABS sensor from the flange side of the rear wheel, clean the magnetic tip and reinstall and see if it clears things up. __________________ ADV decals, patches & flag? Here

03-23-2011, 02:53 AM	#14
dappy Dappy Joined: Mar 2009 Location: Bath Oddometer: 1	Sorted Hello mate, I know its a long time since your post but I have exactly the same issue you seemed to have. Did it get sorted? Would appreciate advice if you did Cheers!

08-03-2009, 07:00 AM	#1
jbrobiker ^OP n00b Joined: Aug 2009 Oddometer: 5	2005 R1200GS ABS and Speedometer down I've read what appears to be thousands of threads on ABS issues but believe my issue is fairly unique: I have a 2005 R1200GS with 12,000 miles - mostly highway and no off-road (sadly). after the bike warms up (temp gauge centered and normal) i loose almost simultanenously ABS as well as the speedometer. this accompanied with the "break failure: light flashing and a solid red triangle indicator light. When i start the bike, when cold, i never get the ABS lights immediately, always after the bike warms up. I can always reset the ABS by turning the bike off and restarting. Speedo comes back too, but the full ABS-Speedo returns in a short distance, when only a month ago it happened very seldomly. so the problem has gotten progressively worse. One other clue to the mystery is that sometimes, when i restart to clear the error and reset the abs, i can hear the modulator whine without applying the breaks - but the sound that would be usual (and normal) to applying the breaks. I did drop the bike a year ago. right side. checked the right hand-shield and it is aligned and not keeping the breaks from moving freely. I also looked (without taking anything apart) the break and wheel speed sensor wires - at least i believe this is what they are. foot break sensor also seems good. on startup my break lites are not activated - only when i pull/step on the breakes. I know i have residual pressure and can, if breaking when this occurs, feel the abs drop out in the hand break. i still have plenty of hand break and when breaking with both with hand and foot simultaneously, i can get the rear break to grab quite well. rear break alone is spongy - i'd need to stand on it to get stop. I brought the bike to BMW Manhattan and they told me the ABS modulator (pump) was out, but when i asked for the readout, it was not available. ultimately, i am reluctant to blow $2400 on a pump and be unsure this is indeed the problem. The fact that the Speedometer is out suggests to me that, though tied into the modulator, the problem may be electrical somewhere else. I'd appreciate someone's help

08-03-2009, 09:59 AM	#3
jbrobiker ^OP n00b Joined: Aug 2009 Oddometer: 5	Actually, i don't get the fault indicator light(s) when i first roll - they only come on after I am moving for a bit and until the bike is hot.

08-04-2009, 03:23 AM	#7
Zoef zoef Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Apr 2009 Location: Finnøy Island, near Stavanger, Norway Oddometer: 255	You may also check all the electrical connections for the ABS, especially at the ABS unit (take connectors off and clean them). My R1150 of 2003 developed a similar problem (readout indicated rear sensor problem), and was fixed in this manner.

08-04-2009, 08:42 AM	#8
Grad Wannabe Joined: Dec 2004 Location: Lake Sinclair, GA and Blairsville, GA Oddometer: 2,220	If you have a LOT of crud on that sensor, you might want to give your rear wheel a wiggle too to make sure you don't have a more significant issue. __________________ Rent our cabin in the N. Georgia mountains. Close to some of the best roads in the country! Discount for ADVriders! 2007 Triumph Tiger 9200 miles, 22 states, 7 weeks on my GS.

08-04-2009, 11:54 AM	#10
CheckerdD Beastly Adventurer Joined: Apr 2005 Location: Dave Rankine, Reno NV Oddometer: 1,071	Just in case you did not understand the highly criptic responses. One of the symptoms of a failing final drive is metal on the speed sensor. This will screw up the speedo. Yours goes to 0. When mine went, it headed to 150 MPH at a stop sign then slowed to 0 going down the road. You don't need to take the bike to the dealer just yet. Take off the rear wheel. Look through the brake disk. Do you see that wire that goes to the inside of the upper part of the final drive? Thats the speed sensor. Unscrew the thing that holds it in and examine the inside. If its covered with metal flakes, someone must have forgotten to change the FD oil and its well on the way to a failure. Then take the bike to the dealer and hope they will convince BMW NA to cover it even though the warranty has expired. If it's not covered with metal flakes come back and someone will think of something else. Dave __________________ Pavement! We don't need no stinkin pavement.

08-05-2009, 01:35 PM	#11
jbrobiker ^OP n00b Joined: Aug 2009 Oddometer: 5	Hey Grad (reponse #8) how much play in the rear wheel is normal? Can I assume there would be a tiny bit (almost undetectable) amount of play or no play at all?

08-09-2009, 02:32 PM	#13
jbrobiker ^OP n00b Joined: Aug 2009 Oddometer: 5	Hi CheckerD (response #10) thanks for your input. so i pulled the rear wheel as well as the rear wheel speed sensor. it had some very fine filings, but nothing gritty - and from my point of view, did not seem like a big deal. i reinstalled all, pulled the front sensor and cleaned it as well. started the bike, let it warm until the heat centered out and took a ride. ABS light turned off after the first rotation of the pull out test. All normal so far. 1/2 mile later Speedo and ABS failure. all residual pressure. good resonse on the hand brake. spongy on the foot, but can get the rear to grab if i coordinate it with, and slightly after pulling the hand brake. Would it be fair to say i've ruled out the speed sensors? Another thread recommended pulling the tank to check out the ABS pump connections. i'm a bit nervous to do this - seems pretty involved. Any other ideas? Thanks everyone for your help thus far.

03-23-2011, 07:51 AM	#15
jbrobiker ^OP n00b Joined: Aug 2009 Oddometer: 5	I did finally figure it out. ABS modulator pump. Sadly (predictably?) it failed just after the 3 year warranty was up. $2,400 US later, it works like a charm now. I had BMW save the pump for me in hopes of taking it apart to see if I can determine what the failure was. If i find anything, I'll let you know. good luck!

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