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Old 04-30-2013, 10:51 AM   #76
Gregg Wannabe
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Originally Posted by Ravenslair View Post
I pulled a few old server cooling fans that are each rated at 77 cfm (ebmpapst 3212 J/2N - 12V, 630mA, 7.6W) . I connected two and shaped the bottom just a bit to see how they fit. A little big, but doable. They run about 75db. I would likely run them all the time during the spring and summer. I have a few buddies with 3D printers. I am going to see if they can fabricate some sort of housing for them that acts as a scoop and minimizes the amount of air that bleeds around the sides. Even with all the gaps, I can feel a fair amount of wind on the backside of the oil cooler.



I like what you are doing here but have some questions:

Does the 77 cfm of flow seem sufficient? I bought a cheap fan at Radio Shack (unsure of rating) and it barely moved any air. I need a much stronger fan.

Is it really necessary to seal all the air to keep it from bleeding? If air is being blown directly onto the fins does it really matter if there is air bleeding somewhere else? I was thinking of trying just one fan in the middle and want the air to bleed around the sides of the fan in the middle. Am I looking at this wrong?

Thanks and keep it coming.
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Old 04-30-2013, 11:35 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Gregg Wannabe View Post
I like what you are doing here but have some questions:

Does the 77 cfm of flow seem sufficient? I bought a cheap fan at Radio Shack (unsure of rating) and it barely moved any air. I need a much stronger fan.

Is it really necessary to seal all the air to keep it from bleeding? If air is being blown directly onto the fins does it really matter if there is air bleeding somewhere else? I was thinking of trying just one fan in the middle and want the air to bleed around the sides of the fan in the middle. Am I looking at this wrong?

Thanks and keep it coming.
There is a huge difference between the standard case fans and these server fans. The normal case fans run somewhere between 25 and 35 cfm. Most fall at the lower end of that range. I used some expanding foam to build a framework and will shave and epoxy it to see if that helps out. I am hoping to have a testable unit by the end of the weekend. I am hoping that by sealing it, the amount of air that is pushed over the fins will be sufficient to keep the big girl at or below 6 bars. We are already having 90F days in Sacramento, so I need something since I hit traffic for the first 5-10 miles of my commute. I will keep you posted.
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Old 04-30-2013, 07:59 PM   #78
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Good to see this again. Was stuck in stop and go this afternoon for around 15 minutes, probably around 80-85F ambient, speeds consistently under 10MPH, etc. I turned on the fan when i saw 6 bars, around the time traffic began to speed up it was back down to 5 bars. I an still going to add a bit of sealing to the sides of the fan to get some better pull, but i'm pretty happy thus far.
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Old 06-09-2013, 08:36 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Ravenslair View Post
There is a huge difference between the standard case fans and these server fans. The normal case fans run somewhere between 25 and 35 cfm. Most fall at the lower end of that range. I used some expanding foam to build a framework and will shave and epoxy it to see if that helps out. I am hoping to have a testable unit by the end of the weekend. I am hoping that by sealing it, the amount of air that is pushed over the fins will be sufficient to keep the big girl at or below 6 bars. We are already having 90F days in Sacramento, so I need something since I hit traffic for the first 5-10 miles of my commute. I will keep you posted.
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Old 06-09-2013, 09:45 PM   #80
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The foam / epoxy did not work well. Actually, it sucked. I have a buddy with a 3d printer. When I get a chance, I am going to see if he can print up a fan housing. The big girl has not had any issues with heat yet. Even when it was close to 110F commuting home, she never got above 7 bars. I still want to get something put together to test. Once she hits 7 bars, I can tell she is not as happy as being at 5 or 6 bars. Anything I can do to keep her happy.

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Old 06-10-2013, 09:54 AM   #81
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After this weekend's riding, I'm going to be looking at this with some more interest. Went riding up some desert trails which were mostly 1st or 2nd gear. Once 7 bars showed I could clearly hear the difference in the valve noise. Never went above 7 and quickly went back to 5 or 6 once we got out of the tight stuff.
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Old 06-10-2013, 11:34 AM   #82
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I don't want to be negative..

but 77 cfm (if those PC fans get to that at all, typically they are rated at free airflow, and that falls of a cliff if you have any restriction like a radiator behind it) would be the air flow going thru one sq ft of radiator on a vehicle that travels 77 ft/min, which is about 0.86 mph? The radiator size is about 1/6th of a sg ft, so if you would really get 77 cfm that would be 6 * 0.86mph, or 5mph. 10 mph with two of those.
And on the other side if you would move at 10mph, then that does not only provide that airflow thru the oil cooler, but also over cylinders/engine.

In my view those fans do very little, and start to block free airflow above walking speeds. The fan on the LC must be at least 4 times the diameter (eg 16 times the surface, and I would think rated at 150W if not more (I can't find the specs)
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Old 06-10-2013, 01:55 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Gompie View Post
but 77 cfm (if those PC fans get to that at all, typically they are rated at free airflow, and that falls of a cliff if you have any restriction like a radiator behind it) would be the air flow going thru one sq ft of radiator on a vehicle that travels 77 ft/min, which is about 0.86 mph? The radiator size is about 1/6th of a sg ft, so if you would really get 77 cfm that would be 6 * 0.86mph, or 5mph. 10 mph with two of those.
And on the other side if you would move at 10mph, then that does not only provide that airflow thru the oil cooler, but also over cylinders/engine.

In my view those fans do very little, and start to block free airflow above walking speeds. The fan on the LC must be at least 4 times the diameter (eg 16 times the surface, and I would think rated at 150W if not more (I can't find the specs)
Any info is helpful. I am only looking at these as helpful during the stop and go portion of my commute. I figure freeway speed should ram enough air through them that they would not be a hindrance. I also have some smaller server case fans that would fit in the space directly behind the oil cooler. I would love something that is automatic like some of the Porsche's have with their rear cooler that raises and lowers automatically.
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Old 06-11-2013, 02:43 AM   #84
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In my view those fans do very little, and start to block free airflow above walking speeds. The fan on the LC must be at least 4 times the diameter (eg 16 times the surface, and I would think rated at 150W if not more (I can't find the specs)
Don't think this is right, IMHO from experience with my old LC K1100RS. 8" OEM radiator fan at full power took ~4A so 60W, with home-made ballast resistor to keep a baseline airflow around town took 1A and still kept the 1100 from overheating (yes, larger radiator but also no aircooling effect at all on the block and still same amount of gas going into the 1100 to keep theright fuel-air ratio).

As far as fans go, happy with my 4 little ones (total 60CFM) on the back of the 1100GS cooler - they keep it in the 5-6 range, and I've noticed no reduction in cooling at any speeds. YMMV - obviously this is an 1100 not a 1200 and I've got no grilles eitherside of the cooler core to reduce airflow (and a smaller core area too, by the looks), but for the cost of the fans I'd give it a look at least. Any heat not going into seals & plastics (cam chain guides, HES) is longevity gained in my thinking.
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Old 06-11-2013, 06:07 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Gompie View Post
but 77 cfm (if those PC fans get to that at all, typically they are rated at free airflow, and that falls of a cliff if you have any restriction like a radiator behind it) would be the air flow going thru one sq ft of radiator on a vehicle that travels 77 ft/min, which is about 0.86 mph? The radiator size is about 1/6th of a sg ft, so if you would really get 77 cfm that would be 6 * 0.86mph, or 5mph. 10 mph with two of those.
And on the other side if you would move at 10mph, then that does not only provide that airflow thru the oil cooler, but also over cylinders/engine.

In my view those fans do very little, and start to block free airflow above walking speeds. The fan on the LC must be at least 4 times the diameter (eg 16 times the surface, and I would think rated at 150W if not more (I can't find the specs)
I'm having a little problem with your arithmetic. If the fan on the "LC" (I don't like that term. It's a GSW or wethead. LC is a family of KTM engines) is 4 times the diameter, that makes it almost as big as the rear wheel.

In places where I can keep a speed of 10 mph I don't think it would overheat, referring to my '07 R12. The last place I had overheating problems was on steep, sandy and rocky switchbacks where I had to throttle the rear wheel around because the front would plow across the level part rather than turn uphill. If I had even a little constant air flow it should have made a big difference.
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Old 06-11-2013, 12:18 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Ravenslair View Post
Any info is helpful
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Originally Posted by maxfnz View Post
Don't think this is right
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Originally Posted by JustKip View Post
I'm having a little problem with your arithmetic.
I just wanted to illustrate what x cfm is vs. a speed. I understand the concerns, I've been stuck in an Italian traffic jam behind a Italian police van, they opened their door to prevent me from passing, my engine getting hot etc. I passed anyway, after having gotten off my bike and walking up to them, but that was once.

re the airflow, I do think those fans cause a restriction, and I do think the ram air flow exceeds the fan performance at already low speeds. One can find toilet/bathroom style fans performance curves on the internet, these are like PC fans but larger. And they do show the impact of restrictions.

re diameter, i assumed the PC fans were 40mm, the LC one 160mm. Yes my 150W was too much, I had that wrong, it would likely be more like 80W full power, and indeed you don't need full power at idle. But let's not forget the efficiency of these go up with diameter.

All I'm saying is if you can run at say 20mph plus there should be no need for a fan at all. And it would be exceptional for me not being able to run faster than 20mph, either in between traffic, or in finding another route?
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Old 06-11-2013, 05:53 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Gompie View Post
but 77 cfm (if those PC fans get to that at all, typically they are rated at free airflow, and that falls of a cliff if you have any restriction like a radiator behind it) would be the air flow going thru one sq ft of radiator on a vehicle that travels 77 ft/min, which is about 0.86 mph? The radiator size is about 1/6th of a sg ft, so if you would really get 77 cfm that would be 6 * 0.86mph, or 5mph. 10 mph with two of those.
And on the other side if you would move at 10mph, then that does not only provide that airflow thru the oil cooler, but also over cylinders/engine.

In my view those fans do very little, and start to block free airflow above walking speeds. The fan on the LC must be at least 4 times the diameter (eg 16 times the surface, and I would think rated at 150W if not more (I can't find the specs)

I would tend to agree with the above, but I think moving along at 10mph would be enough to keep the bike from overheating.

Only time I've had a problem with the 1150 was one in NJ when I was stuck in a multi-hour traffic jam. The bike maxed out the bars a couple of times, I shut it down, waited 30 minutes, and inched in traffic till it did it again, repeat. I finally risked my life (seriously irate cagers) and rode the median about 10 miles to the blockage. I think doing 10mph, and I probably wasn't doing more than that on the median, was enough.

What did the 1150RTPs have on them? They were obviously sitting on the side of the road running for long periods with the popo writing tickets or running radar.

I know GSs don't have a ton of places to put extra stuff like this, but I guess I would lean towards leaving the stock cooler alone, and maybe putting a second auxiliary cooler somewhere, and slapping some fans on it. That way, you aren't really changing any behavior at speed, and having a thermostat means that the auxiliary won't be doing anything most of the time except passively helping.
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:03 PM   #88
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I am putting this idea on hold. The big girl showed me I do not need to play with my worry beads any longer. The ride home today varied from 110F up to 122F. She never showed more than six bars. She started sounding like she does at seven bars but she never went there. I am guessing she was just dancing below it. This kind of heat was what initially worried me.

-Open drawer
-Place worry beads in open drawer
-Close drawer
-Walk away

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Old 06-28-2013, 11:42 PM   #89
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I am putting this idea on hold. The big girl showed me I do not need to play with my worry beads any longer. The ride home today varied from 110F up to 122F. She never showed more than six bars. She started sounding like she does at seven bars but she never went there. I am guessing she was just dancing below it. This kind of heat was what initially worried me.

-Open drawer
-Place worry beads in open drawer
-Close drawer
-Walk away
I assume you were moving pretty consistently at this time?
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Old 06-29-2013, 12:48 AM   #90
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I assume you were moving pretty consistently at this time?
I stopped to take the photo. The temp jumped up once I stopped. While I was at freeway speed it varied between 112-116. While creeping along at 20 or so it was 117F. I remember that because another guy on a bike came up and commented how hot it was. I looked to see what it was so I could tell him the good news. That's when I really started watching it.
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