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Old 02-17-2013, 05:24 AM   #1
Dr LC8 OP
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Alpina Tubeless

Are this any good for off road?

I would have said not at all, however on their website the company reccomand tubeless rims as they would improve performance due to lower weight and more complaince of the tyre with the ground!

Is that true?

My questions are: what about air loss when you hit a rock or something that gives a quick movement of the tyre from the rim edge? How more trouble would this solution give in terms of punctures?

And if these issues are neglegible would be a good idea to fit one of their tubeless kit on a Excel rims?

Comments and experience are wanted

Grazie

Nic
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Old 02-17-2013, 06:11 AM   #2
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I have not tried it yet, but it may vvork for the adventure segment as vve ride vvith highere tirepressure. Tubeless and lovv tirepressure vvould/could be fatal. Both for the rim and ofcourse loss of air. Im still thinking of vvhich vvay to go on my ovvn bike.
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Old 02-17-2013, 06:33 AM   #3
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It depends on what you consider "off road". Obviously BMW has used them on their big GS Adventures for years and I've seen some photos of those bikes in places I wouldn't attempt.

I have a set of Woody's Caponard tubeless wheels on my 990; they're great and feel bombproof. I keep a set of Michelin Anakee's on them for commuting/light off road work. From my experience with tubeless wheels when I had a V-Strom and now on my 990, they'll do just about everything you want to do off road, considering you're not on knobby tires. You may not travel at the same speed but they will work, assuming the trail is dry. The sloppier the trail, the worse they work.

Hitting rocks is really not much different from hitting a pothole on the highway. That being said, if I was planning a long off road trip where I didn't know the road/trail conditions, I'd put on my 21/18 set. Better safe than sorry.
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Old 02-17-2013, 07:47 AM   #4
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They will probably be uber-pricey but the 21/19 combo on the new 1190 will be tubeless.... if you can wait that long.
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Old 02-17-2013, 07:53 AM   #5
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Rims which lack a safety bead = unsafe tubeless

Rims which lack a safety bead are unsafe for use with a conventional tubeless tire installation,
because without a safety bead if the tire loses air pressure the tire bead can come
off the part of the rim where the bead normally seats and fall into the "drop center"
area of the rim. The result of this happening when the bike is moving is that the tire
will wobble all over the place on the rim and the bike will be extremely difficult to
control. The probability that the rider will lose control of the bike and crash is
significant in this scenario.


Read the thread below and look for the comment on "safety bead" which includes
a photo. You will see that it is impossible to add a safety bead to a rim
which was manufactured without a safety bead.

http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...Tube-Type-Rim-!


A wheel assembly which was designed from the outset to be used without a
tube and does include a safety bead can be used safely without a tube
provided the tire mounted is itself tubeless by design.

Have a look at this patent abstract if you want another view of the technical
aspects of using a tubeless tire with a motorcycle wheel which uses conventional
spokes.


http://www.google.com/patents/EP0240241A2?cl=en


If the rims you intend to use don't have a safety bead, it is best and safest to use
a tube and thus use the rim as it was intended to be used by the professional engineers
who designed it. When you make fundamental changes to a design you are experimenting
with things which may or may not work as desired and the results are unknown. Does that
even begin to sound like a good idea where motorcycle wheels are concerned ?




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Old 02-17-2013, 07:56 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr LC8 View Post
And if these issues are neglegible would be a good idea to fit one of their tubeless kit on a Excel rims?


If the Excel rim doesn't have a safety bead it would be a bad idea to attempt to
convert it to tubeless, because even though it is relatively easy to make the wheel
assembly air-tight using silicone seal etc. there is no safety bead and if the tire is
punctured such that it loses a lot of air rapidly the tire bead can fall into the drop
center area of the rim, and the consequences of that can be a loss of control of the bike,
which could be disastrous, depending on where and when it occurs.



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Old 02-17-2013, 12:10 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by It'sNotTheBike View Post
If the Excel rim doesn't have a safety bead it would be a bad idea to attempt to
convert it to tubeless, because even though it is relatively easy to make the wheel
assembly air-tight using silicone seal etc. there is no safety bead and if the tire is
punctured such that it loses a lot of air rapidly the tire bead can fall into the drop
center area of the rim, and the consequences of that can be a loss of control of the bike,
which could be disastrous, depending on where and when it occurs.



.
But can't this happen just as easily with a tubed tire set-up? It did to me, and I don't see tubed or tubeless having made any difference?
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Old 02-17-2013, 12:31 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boredsurfer View Post
They will probably be uber-pricey but the 21/19 combo on the new 1190 will be tubeless.... if you can wait that long.
They are not as expensive as you may think, 1000 a set, but also far too wide for dual sport and not proper tubless system, just a big rubber ring and strap to seal the spoke area. Alpinas use seals on the nipples and a special rim, BEHR (Coponord and BMW) use rims with the spokes outside of the tyre to achieve 100% sealed rim.

Alpinas and BEHR have a safety bead, as does the new ADV wheels and the existing ADV rear.
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Old 02-17-2013, 02:07 PM   #9
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Not sure it would be easy to reinflate a tubeless tire on an unseated bead trailside, using a small pump. Staring fluid works BUT DON'T TRY THIS UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR DOING! Tubes are easy to repair and you can get by with a tire that is cut or a bent rim. I guess, is a small weight savings and alittle more heat buildup causing you problems now? Not sure it would be worth the aggravation for me. But that is for you to decide. I've had a few bad days where rocks have bent my rims on my dual sport. Hammer my rim semi straight,with said rock, and I've always made it home.
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:49 AM   #10
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I'm thinking of possibly picking up a set of the Alpinas.... 21/18. What are the other tubeless tyre choices for 50/50 adventure use apart from the Heidenau K60? And that you could use a tube in if you had to. Thanks.
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Old 02-18-2013, 04:56 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brents347 View Post
But can't this happen just as easily with a tubed tire set-up? It did to me, and I don't see tubed or tubeless having made any difference?

Sure it can also happen with a tubed tire setup.


But I don't think that is a good reason to use a home-brewed tubeless setup
with rims which lack a safety bead. If anything it is a reason to upgrade to rims
which DO include a safety bead and then run tubeless tires. Tubeless tires with
properly engineered wheels are the best solution currently available for a road bike.
But the requirements of a road bike and a bike which will be used in serious off road
riding are very different, so what works best for a road bike may not be the best
real-world solution for an off road bike.


Off road bikes are probably still best off with either tubes or a mousse if the operating
restrictions inherent with a mousse can be followed, because off road bikes can end
up with a dented rim which can make it impossible for a tubeless tire to seal against
the rim. Some people like the Tubliss system, but to me it's just an additional failure
point and you really need to carry a tube anyway so why not just stick with the tried-
and-true setup which uses tubes. Or if you are racing and a flat means you lose the race
then a mousse is probably the best choice assuming your race doesn't involve speeds
which will result in overheating and destruction of the mousse.


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