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Old 09-22-2013, 05:16 PM   #91
tunp
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I agree I have used the K60 successfully also. And this is a great ride, jack and crew do a stellar job.
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Old 09-22-2013, 05:19 PM   #92
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"goofynewfy" is the guy that has my buddy terrified and leaving the 1200GS at home in favor of his DRZ400.

Supposedly he is one of the guys who laid out the course?

ac
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Old 09-22-2013, 05:50 PM   #93
bjoseph
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Do you guys with K60's drop the pressure down in the sand? Does that really make a big difference? The front just seemed to plow sideways in 3-4 inches of sand and made it very difficult to maintain any directional control...
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Old 09-22-2013, 05:57 PM   #94
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Riding technique has a lot to do with it. You might know this already. If you're sitting down, your weight is up high, and if you're feet are off the pegs, you've got very little control. Standing on the pegs lowers your center of gravity and makes the bike more stable. And the front end is able to "wander" instead of knifing in and dumping you sideways. At least that's what I read on the internet! :-)
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Old 09-22-2013, 06:02 PM   #95
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Yeah man I could use more advice like that. I just don't think I'm used to the feeling of a 450lb bike swimming around underneath me. The rear not so much of a problem but the front unnerves me a bit. I'm a ct guy more used to dirt, rocks, and some mud....
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Old 09-22-2013, 06:21 PM   #96
sallydog
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hard front tire is very difficult in deep sand. soft front tire is hundred percent different. you cant take your hand off the gas. As soon as you ease up on the torque your front wheel will dig in. you don't have to be flying but faster is easier and you gotta keep the back wheel pushin. standing is easier than sitting. And its like falling at the beach
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Old 09-22-2013, 06:28 PM   #97
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And get your ass as far over the rear tire as possible when the sand gets deep
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Old 09-22-2013, 07:42 PM   #98
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Laugh Sand Riding Techniques

Sand Riding Techniques
I always think that riding in the sand is the most counterintuitive type of riding for me. What I mean by this is that when I start to loose control of the bike in sand, my mind says to squeeze the grips, brake hard, sit down and throttle down. These are the things that will get you in the most trouble.
1. Let of the grips and let them float a bit in your hands.
2. Throttle up and steer with the power of the rear tire not with the brakes.
3. Stand up and it will lower your center of gravity to the peg height.
4. Relax - hell you are motorcycle riding in the woods - what's the worst thing that can happen?
These things become second nature the more you ride in the sand, but I still have to remind myself of them when I get tired.

I used to write some notes on masking tape and put it on my widescreen - stuff like " Throttle up & let go!"



borrowed from - http://www.paochow.com/riding/sand.php
If you go to that sight, there are some nice vids demonstrating these techniques.

"One of the hardest areas for new dual sporters to ride is sand. Perhaps it is due to the added weight of their street capable bike or their hesitancy to crack open the throttle. No matter what the reason, here is a list of techniques that will aid you in traversing the soft stuff. Who knows – after a while you may even like it.

-Power, Power, Power. Sand is a power robbing surface, so fight back as much as you can. Don’t be afraid to twist the throttle.

-Accelerate sooner, brake later. Sand is not a frictionless surface and takes longer than hard pack to accelerate on. Braking is much more rapid and in the deep stuff, you can stop fairly quickly by simply letting off the throttle.

-Easy on the front brake. Slamming the front brake will cause the front wheel to lock, slide, and likely cause you to dump your bike. Lock the rear instead, and use the front brake sparingly.

-Steer with the rear end. Don’t fight the front end. Throttle and somehip action will allow you to turn much more effectively than trying to dig in with the front.

-Practice in the wet and cold. Wet sand is much more tractable than when dry, allowing you to accelerate easier and turn with more control. Cold sand doesn’t grip as well as when it is wet, but still is better than hot dry sand.

- Weight is your enemy. Don’t overload your bike with unnecessary items, especially up high. Even adding a fender bag to your bike can affect it’s handling in the sand.

-Keep your weight to the rear of the bike. Keeping your weight towards the rear helps the rear tire keep traction and allows the front end to float over the sand. Besides wheeling a bike in the sand is difficult and looping a bike sans paddle tire is near impossible in loose sand.

-Don’t bury the rear end. If you start to get stuck, don’t sit on the bike and pin the throttle – You’ll only dig yourself deeper. Instead alternate the throttle in pulses to help the rear tire grab. If you really start to get stuck, hop off the bike and push and use the gas together to help dig it out.

-If despite your best efforts you end up like the bike in this picture,drop the bike to one side and drag the bike sideways out of the newly created hole, this is easier on your back than trying to lift the bike up out of the hole.

- Drop your air pressure. Lower pressure equals softer tires and more control. It also can lead to buggered rims if you run low pressures in areas with both sand and rocks, so be careful. Be sure to fit rim locks front and rear if you plan on running under 14 psi. Air back up to street pressures if you plan on running at highway speeds or you may overheat your tires and tubes.

-Don’t be afraid to fall. Sand is one of the more forgiving surfaces to fall on both in terms of personal injury and damage to your bike. Learn from your mistakes though, otherwise you will be falling again.

-Try a lighter bike. Borrow a friend’s motocrosser to take out on the dunes. Not only will you learn quicker, the techniques you learn will assist you with a heavier dual sport.

-New rubber. Throwing on a set of soft sand tires or even a rear paddle will make your bike handle significantly better in the sand. These tires will wear very quickly on pavement though, so be advised.

-Have fun. At the end of the day that is what riding is all about...."

I am really getting excited for this year's PB300. I just picked up another set of rims for my HP2 that will be dirt/sand only knobbier!

teeth to the wind,
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Old 09-22-2013, 09:01 PM   #99
sallydog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jack splash View Post
Hey: there is no tight section.

Jack

yeah. thats what i thought....
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Old 09-23-2013, 05:55 AM   #100
Sno Dawg
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tires for the PB300

Do you guys think you could do this ride on Heidenau K60 Scouts
I was going to spoon on my Metzler Karoos

Sallydog - did you run it on K60s? Which bike?
I thought you were selling your Tenere.

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Old 09-23-2013, 06:36 AM   #101
avc8130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sno Dawg View Post
Do you guys think you could do this ride on Heidenau K60 Scouts
I was going to spoon on my Metzler Karoos

Sallydog - did you run it on K60s? Which bike?
I thought you were selling your Tenere.

Sno Dawg
I asked this question on the Tenere forum and almost got laughed away. That forum LOVES the K60s, but when they read the event description on the website they all unanimously screamed TKC 80 or Big Block.

So how much does "goofynewfy" know about the event? He has convinced my crew to avoid the event for being "impossile", even on the KTM 950 Adv he just sold my buddy.

ac
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Old 09-23-2013, 07:05 AM   #102
docgonzo
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Big Bikes in sand....

They behave a little differently then small bikes.

I attended the EXPLOR camps in the Pine Barrens and Lake George, and have used my 950 in the sand for 6 years now. I'm still a novice, but have gotten comfortable with the big guy in sand. A couple of things that are different about the bigger, heavier dual sport bikes.

Jimmy Lewis, who knows a bit about big bikes in sand, is clear that you can keep 24 lbs. of air in your tires on the big bikes. And with proper balance and technique, you don't have to go fast in sand. The low end torque of the big bikes allows you to go as slow as you like, and still stay upright.

Important caveat: Keep your eyes up, and don't look at danger. Look down, and you will crash. Look at a hazard, and you will target-fix on it, and hit it.

The Pine Barrens 500/300 is the best run ever on the East Coast for big bikes. When Jack says it's "Big Bike Friendly", you can trust him!
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Old 09-23-2013, 11:46 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by avc8130 View Post
So how much does "goofynewfy" know about the event? He has convinced my crew to avoid the event for being "impossile", even on the KTM 950 Adv he just sold my buddy.

ac
The KTM Sales Manager would be pissed at goofynewfy, haha. This is definitely one of the easiest [mostly] off-road rides you'll do.
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Old 09-23-2013, 11:52 AM   #104
jimmr
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I rode part of the PB300 course yesterday as a complete novice in the sand, and not terribly experienced offroad in general; 2005 single-cylinder F650GS with K60 Scouts, the rear is brand new and the front has about 8K miles but plenty of tread. Most of it was fine, but it had rained the night before and that made it all easier. I took two naps. The first was in some fairly deep sand at the beginning of one of the 'hero' sections; I didn't try that section, but went in a couple of hundred yards to see what the deeper stuff was like, turned then dumped it about 20 yards from the start. The second time was a fairly innocuous left turn at an intersection where there were ruts and the front just slid out from under me; this was mostly my fault in not shifting my weight around properly; the instructor saw it and it was a great 'teachable moment'. However, the comment was made later that the K60 front didn't help, it's considered the bare minimum. For me, the rear had no trouble, even in a fairly soft uphill.

Got to thank Jack and his crew for making things like this possible.
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Old 09-23-2013, 02:02 PM   #105
sallydog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avc8130 View Post

So how much does "goofynewfy" know about the event? He has convinced my crew to avoid the event for being "impossile", even on the KTM 950 Adv he just sold my buddy.

ac
if he isnt one of those weekend warriors that rides around an hour or two on sunny sunday afternoons then he must be one of those know-it-alls that doesnt know much
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