Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki & Kawasaki - Listen Up, Please...

[Royal Tiger]

Great post again GD.

While the 450 MX class might be competitive, the 85's are a KTM parade. Younger kids are seeing the dominance.

[Bubba Bauer]

So intresting to see how much KTM dominates the US mind (at least through this posts)

In OZ Yamaha sold almost as much WR450F-s ALONE as all the KTM EXC-s combined.

http://www.fcai.com.au/motorcycles/a...market-in-2012

BUT I agree I`m sick and tired of the big4 not doing anything other than leading sales lists and lining their pockets so it seams only 1 choice left.

[Grreatdog]

But down there you can license your WR450F. Ours is dirt only while the KTM EXC's are street legal. Plus, even though it is an offroad only model, US law says if it has a headlight it has to meet EPA requirements. Therefore our WR450F comes with a throttle stop, air box baffles, exhaust baffles and detuned ECU settings.

Therefore it isn't any wonder Yamaha doesn't sell many WR450F's here. Not when a KTM EXC is 50 state legal and basically ready ride right without as much surgery. Which is the basic lament of this entire thread. Most people know Yamaha makes a street legal WR450F but we just can't get them here in the USA.

[VxZeroKnots]

Originally Posted by Grreatdog

But down there you can license your WR450F. Ours is dirt only while the KTM EXC's are street legal. Plus, even though it is an offroad only model, US law says if it has a headlight it has to meet EPA requirements. Therefore our WR450F comes with a throttle stop, air box baffles, exhaust baffles and detuned ECU settings.

Therefore it isn't any wonder Yamaha doesn't sell many WR450F's here. Not when a KTM EXC is 50 state legal and basically ready ride right without as much surgery. Which is the basic lament of this entire thread. Most people know Yamaha makes a street legal WR450F but we just can't get them here in the USA.

Are you kidding me? I expect such lunacy from the EPA, but wouldn't it make so much more sense for Yamaha to offer theWR450F with no headlight and a full power engine, then sell the headlight as a "kit" item?

That is some assbackwards thinking if true.

[Grreatdog]

Maybe I am reading this wrong, but it is from an EPA bulletin:

Since 1978, EPA has required emissions certification for motorcycles, except for those with engines less than 50cc and "off-road" motorcycles that lack head, tail and brake lights. However, beginning in 2006, all motorcycles will be regulated.

http://www.epa.gov/compliance/resour...ralert0801.pdf

[VxZeroKnots]

well there you have it.

[Sierra Thumper]

Originally Posted by Grreatdog

Maybe I am reading this wrong, but it is from an EPA bulletin:

Since 1978, EPA has required emissions certification for motorcycles, except for those with engines less than 50cc and "off-road" motorcycles that lack head, tail and brake lights. However, beginning in 2006, all motorcycles will be regulated.

http://www.epa.gov/compliance/resour...ralert0801.pdf

Its pretty sad when you have to modify your detuned "strictly dirt bike" to get its power back
If you're a strictly dirt rider, I think picking up a 500cc class 2 stroke, and modernizing the suspension, is the smartest move. They'll outlast the modern 4 strokes, outpower them, weigh less, and are simpler/cheaper to maintain and a hell of a lot more fun
For dual sporting it looks like european is the way to go, the japanese can't seem to meet the epa regs and still bring any power to the table like the euro's

[joexr]

Originally Posted by Sierra Thumper

Its pretty sad when you have to modify your detuned "strictly dirt bike" to get its power back
If you're a strictly dirt rider, I think picking up a 500cc class 2 stroke, and modernizing the suspension, is the smartest move. They'll outlast the modern 4 strokes, outpower them, weigh less, and are simpler/cheaper to maintain and a hell of a lot more fun
For dual sporting it looks like european is the way to go, the japanese can't seem to meet the epa regs and still bring any power to the table like the euro's

The smaller manufacturers dont have to meet the same regulations. Id still rather go more common [ japanese] and uncork/modify. Not a problem if you know what you are doing.

[Sierra Thumper]

Originally Posted by joexr

The smaller manufacturers dont have to meet the same regulations. Id still rather go more common [ japanese] and uncork/modify. Not a problem if you know what you are doing.

Thats true with the japanese mx bikes and off road enduro's......but there's no way to uncork a DR650/KLR/XRL to get any more real power out of them without pouring money into internal engine mods, then you might as well just go euro.

I personally feel the pain, I have a nice xrl with lots of external mods, including suspension, intake/carb/full exhaust, gearing etc. Its a great ds to ride overall, lots of fun on and off road, but its seriously lacking in power compared to the euro machines and always will. Thats why I'm planning on adding a KTM to the garage next year to go along with the XRL

[ADV BUM]

Originally Posted by joexr

The smaller manufacturers dont have to meet the same regulations. Id still rather go more common [ japanese] and uncork/modify. Not a problem if you know what you are doing.

THis is true, and makes it hard for the big manufacturers to make what we want.

[ADV BUM]

Originally Posted by Sierra Thumper

Thats true with the japanese mx bikes and off road enduro's......but there's no way to uncork a DR650/KLR/XRL to get any more real power out of them without pouring money into internal engine mods, then you might as well just go euro.

I personally feel the pain, I have a nice xrl with lots of external mods, including suspension, intake/carb/full exhaust, gearing etc. Its a great ds to ride overall, lots of fun on and off road, but its seriously lacking in power compared to the euro machines and always will. Thats why I'm planning on adding a KTM to the garage next year to go along with the XRL

There are no European bikes that do not have to be uncorked. They run like crap unless unrestricted.

You can modify the crap out of xrl engine and it will still have more durability than the the Euro's.

Huge factor is smog. When all these bikes start to get hooked up to smog machines DS will fall off. Old will become desired again.

[joexr]

Originally Posted by Sierra Thumper

Thats true with the japanese mx bikes and off road enduro's......but there's no way to uncork a DR650/KLR/XRL to get any more real power out of them without pouring money into internal engine mods, then you might as well just go euro.

I personally feel the pain, I have a nice xrl with lots of external mods, including suspension, intake/carb/full exhaust, gearing etc. Its a great ds to ride overall, lots of fun on and off road, but its seriously lacking in power compared to the euro machines and always will. Thats why I'm planning on adding a KTM to the garage next year to go along with the XRL

I was referring to bikes like CRFX or WRF. The japanese DS bikes are a whole different category. By the way. My XRL weighs 320 full of gas and is as quick as my buddys 690.

[Sierra Thumper]

Originally Posted by ADV BUM

There are no European bikes that do not have to be uncorked. They run like crap unless unrestricted.

You can modify the crap out of xrl engine and it will still have more durability than the the Euro's.

Huge factor is smog. When all these bikes start to get hooked up to smog machines DS will fall off. Old will become desired again.

Originally Posted by joexr

I was referring to bikes like CRFX or WRF. The japanese DS bikes are a whole different category. By the way. My XRL weighs 320 full of gas and is as quick as my buddys 690.

Valid points guys
I could have Cycle Wizard do his magic on my motor for a reasonable investment and have a KTM fast, brick reliable xrl, and I'm still toying with that idea.....but I also wouldn't mind a back up ds in case ones down for repairs. The xrl makes a great all round ds for my riding style...smooth and capable on road, and loads of torque and suspension for the off-road type of riding I do.
But I also wouldn't mind a back-up bike with less weight
What to do....what to do

[ADV BUM]

Originally Posted by Sierra Thumper

Valid points guys
I could have Cycle Wizard do his magic on my motor for a reasonable investment and have a KTM fast, brick reliable xrl, and I'm still toying with that idea.....but I also wouldn't mind a back up ds in case ones down for repairs. The xrl makes a great all round ds for my riding style...smooth and capable on road, and loads of torque and suspension for the off-road type of riding I do.
But I also wouldn't mind a back-up bike with less weight
What to do....what to do

Suz DR350

[acesandeights]

Originally Posted by Sierra Thumper

...but there's no way to uncork a DR650/KLR/XRL to get any more real power out of them without pouring money into internal engine mods, then you might as well just go euro.
...

I thought you could get 10% - 20% by uncorking a DR650? You can't get over 3 hp with a jet kit, open airbox and exhaust mods? I actually just read an article where they got close to 6 hp (almost a 20% increase).