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Old 02-06-2013, 03:42 PM   #271
motoman250f
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right on! you know theres a bigger group than this asking for the klr to get FI and a little better suspension. thats the easiest thing for kawasaki to do and yet that old engine lingers as is. Again the big 4 know what sells more than we do. they cant afford to listen to us IMHO,,


Quote:
Originally Posted by montesa_vr View Post
304 with a full tank, according to October 1990 Motorcyclist test. That seems reasonable, depending on your purpose. It seems to me that we have a pretty significant divide between actual adventure riders and more focused off roaders. The latter just need something legal to link the trails. The former want something that can link trails hundreds or thousands of miles apart.

Off the Grid has made a detailed and profane case for the RFS KTMs, but they can only fill the needs of the off-roaders. Part of what makes them light is what is missing -- cooling fan, electrical output, cushion hub, adequate lighting for night riding. So let's not get too crazy expecting to get way under 300 pounds unless you want a trailer queen that couldn't do commuter duty.

Here's a slap in the face to all who think the Japanese are missing out on some big sales by leaving the serious off road market to the Europeans. When Kawasaki released their update to the KLR650 in 2008, they told Motorcycledaily that "the KLR650 has consistently out-sold all competitors -- double the sales of the next best selling dual sport (Suzuki's DR-Z400S)." Think about that. Total dual sport sales are only a sliver of total US motorcycle sales and DRZ sales were half of KLR650 sales? And everything else is behind the DRZ?

People keep asking why Yamaha hasn't brought the Tenere to the US. Its right there in those numbers -- The Tenere can't compete with the KLR on price and Yamaha doesn't believe people will pay thousands of dollars extra for a motorcycle that is not significantly lighter or more powerful.The Japanese have the numbers. They look at the KLR and think "that's what Americans want." Why would they go after KTM when the risk is so high and the return so small?

I think the introduction of three all new Japanese 250 class dual sports in the last five years is an encouraging sign. If the economy ever turns around I expect we'll see some larger clean sheet designs. They will be a step ahead of the DRZ, the XL650S, and the DR650. But if you really want a street legal motorcycle in the 450-650 class that weighs under 300 pounds, you might as well go see your KTM dealer now. Japan is never gonna try and sell a $9000 450 in the United States.
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Old 02-06-2013, 04:10 PM   #272
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It seems some are talkin more of a dirtbike need. A light bike suks in traffic. A little weight helps not get blown around. For me, I need a bike that can cruise at 70+ with traffic to get to the dirt.. Then blast up any narly hill, jump off the top, and wheelie and roost everywhere. My 640e fits the bill (for the price) better than anything but newer ktm 690s. The 500 is more maintenance than I want, and a little light for traffic. but by far the best in pure dirt. My 640 is barely any maintenance for a bike ridden in the dirt. This is only ktm I have ever ridden. Sooo I am pretty uneducated about them. Owned dozens of jap bikes and a husky. This KTM is the best overall bike I've ever owned. Ridden DR's and xr, xl, klr. They can be made to go fast, handle a little better. But imo they don't compare to my bike overall. My friend (ya I got a friend) has a DR and just worshiped it. I almost got one. Then I discovered the 640. Now he Dos'nt like his bike so much any more. Cant even get him to ride anymore hardly. But like all the stubborn people on this site. He still wont get a KTM. Talkin about he can get some better front and back suspension again (as he has already done his suspension once). I keep ridin and he keeps modifying. But yet dr owners accuse ktm people of always wrenching? Hasn't been the case hear so far. If ya bought it, ride it, dont bitch about it.
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Old 02-06-2013, 04:16 PM   #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motoman250f View Post
right on! you know theres a bigger group than this asking for the klr to get FI and a little better suspension. thats the easiest thing for kawasaki to do and yet that old engine lingers as is. Again the big 4 know what sells more than we do. they cant afford to listen to us IMHO,,
Yeah, TOTAL dual sport sales in 2012 were 28,452 motorcycles. That's only 6% of total motorcycle sales for the year, When you consider that the KLR once sold twice as many copies as the next best selling dualsport, the DRZ, what does that say about individual model sales for all the rest? Harley sold almost twice as many Sportsters as all dual sports combined. It just isn't the huge market that some of us wish it was.

On the other hand, the idiot Suzuki executive who decided to go from the six speed in the DR350 to the five speed in the DRZ400 cost the company a fortune in sales. I can see why the manufacturers don't spend millions in R&D to develop new motorcycles for a small market. I do not understand why they turn around and allow stupid decisions to cost them money.
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Old 02-06-2013, 05:39 PM   #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montesa_vr View Post
yeah, total dual sport sales in 2012 were 28,452 motorcycles. That's only 6% of total motorcycle sales for the year, when you consider that the klr once sold twice as many copies as the next best selling dualsport, the drz, what does that say about individual model sales for all the rest? Harley sold almost twice as many sportsters as all dual sports combined. It just isn't the huge market that some of us wish it was.

On the other hand, the idiot suzuki executive who decided to go from the six speed in the dr350 to the five speed in the drz400 cost the company a fortune in sales. I can see why the manufacturers don't spend millions in r&d to develop new motorcycles for a small market. I do not understand why they turn around and allow stupid decisions to cost them money.
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:01 PM   #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtntrails View Post
You guys are "missing the boat" in a big way...

The market is (and has been for years) screaming out for a proper, modern, mid-size (300cc - 450cc) dual-sport - a more potent version of the excellent Yamaha WR250R & Honda CRF250L

35 - 45 RWHP
Fuel Injection
6-speed Tranny
Target Weight at or Under 300lbs
3000-4000 Mile Oil Change Intervals
15k + Mile Valve Adjustment Intervals
Modern, Fully Adjustable Suspension
A Subframe Capable of Carrying Luggage & Camping Gear
An Electrical System Capable of Running Heated Gear, GPS, etc.
Build it for Unquestionable Reliability & Durability
$5000 - $9000 MSRP (depending on displacement & specs)

ADVRider, ThumperTalk, HorizonsUnlimited, et al are filled with threads and posts lamenting this huge "hole" in the marketplace. When will the "Big 4" step up and build this bike? Whoever is the first out of the gate will have a blockbuster hit on their hands - the rest will hopefully follow.

Don't forget to build a SM version too!
Yeah right !!!..next thing you will want is a white American Born Business Man with a College Degree that everyone can view his grades and papers..... as President of the United States of America.

never happen,,, but nice to dream about !
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Old 02-06-2013, 11:10 PM   #276
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Originally Posted by acesandeights View Post
I thought you could get 10% - 20% by uncorking a DR650? You can't get over 3 hp with a jet kit, open airbox and exhaust mods? I actually just read an article where they got close to 6 hp (almost a 20% increase).
The DR and xrl have similar stock hp. I've did all the external mods I can to my xrl's suspension and engine. The suspension works awesome now, I have ZERO complaints in that department. And the bolt-on engine mods did give a nice power boost, very noticeable....I'm sure 6-8hp or more.
And honestly it has all the power and torque I need for the kind of off road riding I do. But on the open road, loaded down, is where I miss the power the most. Thats where the KTM's extra ponies would be nice

I forgot to add I live and ride at 5000ft and up.....so I'm already down substantially on power over the same bike at sea level
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:20 AM   #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montesa_vr View Post
Yeah, TOTAL dual sport sales in 2012 were 28,452 motorcycles. That's only 6% of total motorcycle sales for the year, When you consider that the KLR once sold twice as many copies as the next best selling dualsport, the DRZ, what does that say about individual model sales for all the rest? Harley sold almost twice as many Sportsters as all dual sports combined. It just isn't the huge market that some of us wish it was.

On the other hand, the idiot Suzuki executive who decided to go from the six speed in the DR350 to the five speed in the DRZ400 cost the company a fortune in sales. I can see why the manufacturers don't spend millions in R&D to develop new motorcycles for a small market. I do not understand why they turn around and allow stupid decisions to cost them money.

montesa_vr - Does that sales figure represent worldwide sales or US sales? Does it represent all manufacturers?
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Old 02-07-2013, 09:35 AM   #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtntrails View Post
montesa_vr - Does that sales figure represent worldwide sales or US sales? Does it represent all manufacturers?
US sales, all manufacturers. http://blog.motorcycle.com/2013/02/0...-2-6-increase/
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:47 PM   #279
eakins
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in the end it's not gonna be Japan Inc. that does this but KTM.
the owner has confirmed they are doing a 390 ADV/traveler thumper version and plan to release it at a very aggressive price point. expect to see alot in the ADV circles. also look to Husky(KTM) to do something too. Japan Inc makes too much $ in other segments and they'll just stick with the 250 class because they can sell them everywhere.

if we're lucky Suzuki will update the DRZ but only when an EPA mandate causes them to stop selling the existing bike. at that time they may have a FI 250 dual-sport out and give up on the 400 class too. understand the only reason they are still doing the DRZ is because it exists from before.

i'm thinking Japan inc. might all bypass the 400 class and focus new model FI 650 class. it makes it easy for them. 2 dual sports one small (250) one big (650) done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtntrails View Post
You guys are "missing the boat" in a big way...

The market is (and has been for years) screaming out for a proper, modern, mid-size (300cc - 450cc) dual-sport - a more potent version of the excellent Yamaha WR250R & Honda CRF250L

35 - 45 RWHP
Fuel Injection
6-speed Tranny
Target Weight at or Under 300lbs
3000-4000 Mile Oil Change Intervals
15k + Mile Valve Adjustment Intervals
Modern, Fully Adjustable Suspension
A Subframe Capable of Carrying Luggage & Camping Gear
An Electrical System Capable of Running Heated Gear, GPS, etc.
Build it for Unquestionable Reliability & Durability
$5000 - $9000 MSRP (depending on displacement & specs)

ADVRider, ThumperTalk, HorizonsUnlimited, et al are filled with threads and posts lamenting this huge "hole" in the marketplace. When will the "Big 4" step up and build this bike? Whoever is the first out of the gate will have a blockbuster hit on their hands - the rest will hopefully follow.

Don't forget to build a SM version too!
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:54 PM   #280
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dual-sports keep moving in the right direction. slowly but surely.
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:16 PM   #281
RebelYell
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I have an 09 Aprilia 450 RVX twin,It has more then enough power for me I think they say 60 for the 450 and 70 for the 550 at the cranks so your looking at probably close to 50 and 60 rwhp.You can still find them new for close to 6-7 grand get them sorted out w the fuel injection and you got a good powerful dual sport thats fairly light.I dont care for the marque de sade hard as bricks seat or the 5 speed gear box that gets tachy at 60-70 mph but up to that acceleration is eye watering and if you arent careful w the axe eugene that bike will come up and come up fast on you.I dont believe the economy is supporting 8 grand and up off road bikes anymore and if they are its not the blue collar working class who are buying these machines.Yeah you can have money but I dont truly believe they are the true blue thick n thin stay w the sport enthusiasts in the long run..I also believe japanese bikes have gotten so prohibitly expensive because our dollar has been so undervalued and the dollar isnt worth squatilla anymore compared to other currencies.
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Old 02-07-2013, 05:57 PM   #282
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The SXV/RXV 4.5/5.5 are some of the hardest-edged full-on race bikes ever built. They are not and never will be Dual Sports. Use them however you want, but call them what they really are. Otherwise, we spend too much time in wasted discussion rather than focusing on the topic(s) at hand.
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:17 PM   #283
RebelYell
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I know its a street legal race bike but some said the big 4 jap companies dont make anything w power so to shut up the bitches /bitchers I gave them all an option is what I did.DOnt say there isnt any street legal bikes w power because there is jsut not from the jap companies.Oh and dont be a hater
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:39 PM   #284
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I know its a street legal race bike but some said the big 4 jap companies dont make anything w power so to shut up the bitches /bitchers I gave them all an option is what I did.DOnt say there isnt any street legal bikes w power because there is jsut not from the jap companies.Oh and dont be a hater

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Old 02-07-2013, 07:42 PM   #285
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LIke I care,I tell it like it is would ya rather have me lie about it?
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