Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki & Kawasaki - Listen Up, Please...

[NJ-Brett]

The ktm dealer (in Vincetown I think) seems to have about 5 ktm's on display on average, and none of them have turn signals...
I know I could get one (if I had the money) but you can not go there and look and sit on the range of bikes ktm makes.
I do not give a hoot if there is a dealer as I get my parts on line and do my own work, but other then at a dealer, the only time I get to study ktm's is basicly watching how well the back tires throw rocks in my face.

I agree, 90% of the bikes in the pinelands seem to be ktm's.
I will have to study that great write up, thanks.

[Lulu7404]

Originally Posted by NJ-Brett

That sounds like a great bike.
What is the downside?
Its got to have one...besides the price...

Possible downsides....
too much power available, but you have to twist your wrist, the bike won't do it for you
lean from factory for emissions, just like any 50 state legal bike is. Some fixes available (programmers, etc)
no warranty... basically, even though it is a "dual sport" motorcycle.
it's a big bike for tight single track... and when I say tight, I mean stop and twist your handlebars to get through some trees, tight. But we are talking about dual sport right? I loved it in Colorado, fuel injection adjusted to altitude no problem, hwy to trails, trails to 13k ft plus, and hwy back to camp.
Oil changes and valve "checks" (not adjustments necessarily) are given for RACE applications. People who race also change tires for every venue, dual sporters do not.
It is new, so there is not any history on the motor yet. Give it time, or test it yourself. It will put a silly smile on your face when you ride it.

ps. I have 4 KTM dealers within 30 miles of my house. I would say every new bike was represented by all together, but I still didn't get a test ride.

[Off the grid]

Originally Posted by NJ-Brett

The ktm dealer (in Vincetown I think) seems to have about 5 ktm's on display on average, and none of them have turn signals...
I know I could get one (if I had the money) but you can not go there and look and sit on the range of bikes ktm makes.
I do not give a hoot if there is a dealer as I get my parts on line and do my own work, but other then at a dealer, the only time I get to study ktm's is basicly watching how well the back tires throw rocks in my face.

I agree, 90% of the bikes in the pinelands seem to be ktm's.
I will have to study that great write up, thanks.

Glad to help, mate. If you have any specific questions feel free to PM me.

[n1tr0]

I just wanted to add my voice to this plea. We have 4 DRZ's in my family ranging from 2002 to 2008. There's absolutely no reason to go out and buy any new bikes as much as we would all love to upgrade to some new tech.

Maybe KTM or Husky will add a bullet-proof high-mileage engine to their street legal bikes ? I don't mind paying a premium for a bike I can ride every-day, every-where, I just can't have it break down when I'm a 1000 miles from home or late for work.

[jar944]

Originally Posted by Lulu7404

It is new, so there is not any history on the motor yet. Give it time, or test it yourself.

That's not entirely accurate. Its a refined version of the XC4 motor. One would expect it to better the RFS. all the issues in the RFS and XC4 have been addressed with the 500.

[Grreatdog]

Originally Posted by n1tr0

I just wanted to add my voice to this plea. We have 4 DRZ's in my family ranging from 2002 to 2008. There's absolutely no reason to go out and buy any new bikes as much as we would all love to upgrade to some new tech.

Maybe KTM or Husky will add a bullet-proof high-mileage engine to their street legal bikes ? I don't mind paying a premium for a bike I can ride every-day, every-where, I just can't have it break down when I'm a 1000 miles from home or late for work.

I assume your post is based on your own experience with Euro bikes breaking down. So there is apparently not much point in noting my own experience is that my two have never broken down or even broken a part despite monstrous abuse. In fact none of the orange bikes I ride with have ever broken. Yet both my XT and my XL failed three times on dual sport rides from not being up to that kind of offroad abuse.

[Off the grid]

Originally Posted by n1tr0

Maybe KTM or Husky will add a bullet-proof high-mileage engine to their street legal bikes ? I don't mind paying a premium for a bike I can ride every-day, every-where, I just can't have it break down when I'm a 1000 miles from home or late for work.

A KTM 450 EXC has similar reliability as your DRZ, but is lighter, faster, has much better parts and most importantly the suspension is in a completely different class. Its about the same price, used.

The price you pay for that performance is changing the oil and adjusting the valves 2x as often, which for people that are serious about riding dirt have zero issues with.

Hope this clears up any confusion.

[mtntrails]

Excellent! I'm happy to see this thread gaining momentum and appreciate everyone's posts & perspective.


The term "UJM" or "Universal Japanese Motorcycle" refers to a "Standard" street bike. If you expand the term "UJM" to include dualsports - more specifically a mid-size dualsport - this is what I'm talking about - a modern, mass-market, mid-size dualsport platform that you can build to suit your particular mission - capable of everything from light single-track to round-the-world adventure travel.

[Rusty Shovel]

Originally Posted by jules083

The bike the OP, and a lot of us, is wanting may very well be in the works. Honda, Kawasaki, and Yamaha recently came out with a new version of the 250. Maybe they are counting numbers to see if a 450 is worthwhile?

My Honda dealer can't keep the 250 in stock. They sell as soon as they hit the showroom. I bought a WR250R, but I will trade it in tomorrow if they make a WR450R.

My problem with the 250? It will go 75 on the interstate with STOCK gearing. But the gearing is too tall for off-roading--so I have a Hobson's choice: Gear down and sacrifice my ability to commute down the freeway in order to have more fun in the dirt. A 450 would be a true dual sport in my case.

Shovel

[Gryphon12]

Originally Posted by Rusty Shovel

My Honda dealer can't keep the 250 in stock. They sell as soon as they hit the showroom. I bought a WR250R, but I will trade it in tomorrow if they make a WR450R.

My problem with the 250? It will go 75 on the interstate with STOCK gearing. But the gearing is too tall for off-roading--so I have a Hobson's choice: Gear down and sacrifice my ability to commute down the freeway in order to have more fun in the dirt. A 450 would be a true dual sport in my case.

Shovel

I feel your pain. But Hobson's choice for the WRR is really this: gear 14/47 or 14/48 for the street, and carry a 13 tooth CS sprocket and switch at the trail head. Takes 10-15 minutes and a 112 link chain.

[SCQTT]

The ADV crowd has an overinflated estimate of their market's size & value, but you guys are entertaining.

[SnappNBrrap]

Originally Posted by It'sNotTheBike

There is still a worldwide economic crisis.

Those who have decision-making power at the "Big Four" Japanese motorcycle
companies are aware of this even if you are not.

People with power in large corporations did not get to their positions by being
stupid. The market for a dual sport bike is small and before they spend money for
design and tooling, companies need to have a high degree of confidence that
they will sell a lot of units or that they will sell fewer units for a significantly higher
price ( KTM fits the second category here ). The way the Japanese play the game,
they want to know that they can sell X units per year and if they believe this is not
possible they will ignore that market segment ( strangely enough this is exactly what
is happening in the real world ).

In case you haven't noticed, motorcycle dealerships in the US are disappearing
at a high rate. They are going out of business. This is not a climate in which any
major manufacturer is going to invest in design and tooling for a bike which
will sell to a relatively small number of people in a niche market. And dual sport
motorcycles are sold to a relatively small niche market. Sport bikes and cruisers
are where the large markets are. And all the manufacturers know this even if you
do not.


Buy a used KTM 690 Enduro or RFS-engine KTM 450 or KTM 525 and ride now, while you are
physically still able to enjoy riding. That is what smart people who like to ride nice bikes
are doing. Riding beats dreaming about bikes that don't exist and probably
won't exist at any time in the next decade.


.

except honda has been building shit nobody wants and therefore doesn't sell for years now. yeah the supersport market wont change but most guys want something more like the VFR800 or the CB1100 (which needs 6speeds not 5) especially guys over 40 that cant be straining their backs over a SS all the time.

Usually Kawi is pretty good at finding the uninhabited niches first (at least in the US) and thats why they own the beginner's bike realm with the Ninja 250 and now the Ninja300. also the versys has completely taken off, the Connie14 (6spd) is outselling the FJR13 (5spd) and the whiney ST13, the KLR is still the best selling 650DS thumper and the New ZX-636 even though it doesnt own its market, it still offers more than the competitors.

Also the Supermoto Market is where I'd be investing my money right now if i was in their shoes. but suzuki is the only one of the big4 with a big enough bike (DRZ400SM) to do everything. KTM, Husaberg, Husky, and Yamaha (except in US) are making 400+ cc bikes in this market and havin success, why cant Kawi and Honda do it?

Honestly the bike spoken of would be something like the WR450 with a 6spd with a full light kit standard, but a regular WR450f is over $8200 msrp which is ridiculous. a friggin 450cc non-legal single cylinder costs $1000 more than my 600cc, road-legal, fuel injected (2012 WR is FI), sportbike ($7200 new in '09). an offroad machine should cost about $5500-$6500 at the most. but honestly most people would still just buy a used RFS KTM, or a CRF-X, or WR450 and put lights and crap on it and for under $5000 have a kickass bike.

[joexr]

An FZ6 is not a sportbike. An R6 is $10,890 MSRP.

[gordo5]

Originally Posted by SCQTT

The ADV crowd has an overinflated estimate of their market's size & value, but you guys are entertaining.

Unfortunately you're right, but it is showing growth. Still, kind of sad to be outsold by scooters....

http://blog.motorcycle.com/2012/01/2...sales-results/

[Albie]

Originally Posted by joexr

An FZ6 is not a sportbike. An R6 is $10,890 MSRP.

True, but in '09 Yammy dealers were selling R6's for $6800. Same with Kawi and the ZX6, I almost pulled the trigger on a Monster edition for $6895. Because the manufacturers cut back production so much, they've raised the prices significantly.