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Old 01-26-2013, 11:55 PM   #106
Sierra Thumper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal Tiger View Post
I forgot about the staggering levels of high performance available in the KLR, DR, and XR-L 650's.
Funny guy I think everyone understood what I meant.....a new 450 styled dualsport based off the 450 mx machines technology would be WAYYYYY different than the 20 year old designs you're speaking of
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Old 01-27-2013, 12:09 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by Off the grid View Post
That bike is currently out there.....00-07 KTM RFS bike.
And thats what I'll probably own within the next year or 2
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:42 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by mtntrails View Post

a proper, mass-market, modern, mid-size (300cc - 450cc) dual-sport - a more potent version of the excellent Yamaha WR250R & Honda CRF250L

35 - 45 RWHP
Fuel Injection
6-speed Tranny
Target Weight at or Under 300lbs
3000-4000 Mile Oil Change Intervals
15k + Mile Valve Adjustment Intervals
Modern, Fully Adjustable Suspension
A Subframe Capable of Carrying Luggage & Camping Gear
An Electrical System Capable of Running Heated Gear, GPS, etc.
Build it for Unquestionable Reliability & Durability
$5000 - $9000 MSRP (depending on displacement & specs)

ADVRider, ThumperTalk, HorizonsUnlimited, et al are filled with threads and posts lamenting this huge "hole" in the marketplace. When will the "Big 4" step up and build this bike? Whoever is the first out of the gate will have a blockbuster hit on their hands - the rest will hopefully follow.

Don't forget to build a SM version too!

If a bike like this were to suddenly appear in dealer showrooms, would it be on your short list to purchase in the next year or two? (assuming the aftermarket has made all of the parts (skid plates, racks, fuel tanks, etc.) you need to fit your application)
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Old 01-28-2013, 04:59 AM   #109
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Either lower the target weight or up the target hp in that post and I would be in. But if I wanted a 40 hp, 300 pound dual sport I would simply buy an XR650L, a full FMF exhaust, Shorai battery, decent handlebars and a jet kit. Tack a $1000 or so onto the price of a new XR650L and you can have that bike today.

But then I am not hung up on how many gears they have as long as it is a decent spread and the bike pulls it. I never miss sixth on my LC4. Though I do find myself looking for seventh, eighth and ninth on the MXC.
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Old 01-28-2013, 06:44 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by Grreatdog View Post
Either lower the target weight or up the target hp in that post and I would be in. But if I wanted a 40 hp, 300 pound dual sport I would simply buy an XR650L, a full FMF exhaust, Shorai battery, decent handlebars and a jet kit. Tack a $1000 or so onto the price of a new XR650L and you can have that bike today.

But then I am not hung up on how many gears they have as long as it is a decent spread and the bike pulls it. I never miss sixth on my LC4. Though I do find myself looking for seventh, eighth and ninth on the MXC.
I'd much rather lose weight. 300 LBS is too high a target. 260 would be mine. If the bikes 300 lbs I want HP in the 50's.

Yup, ratio is more important then how many gears. My DR works fine with it's 5 speed. My 690 is a little too narrow with it's 6 speed.

And as far as the valve check intervals go, 6K is plenty far enough apart. Checking the valves on a thumper is a simple process, no more difficult then changing the oil. Make it Shim over bucket and it's even simple to adjust.
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Old 01-28-2013, 06:52 AM   #111
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That was my point. If I am going to be rocking 300 pounds I want 50+ horsepower. So, since I already have a just over 300 pound 50+ hp bike, somebody would need to come in significantly under 300 pounds to intice me to give up some of that power for a new 450. Your 260 pounds looks about right to me. I would be perfectly happy on that described 35 to 45 hp 450 adventure bike as long as it saved a big chunk of weight over my 640 or (since this is a Japanese bike hand wringing thread) the modified XR650L that I described . Otherwise, why bother?
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Grreatdog screwed with this post 01-28-2013 at 06:58 AM
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Old 01-28-2013, 07:21 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sierra Thumper View Post
Funny guy I think everyone understood what I meant.....a new 450 styled dualsport based off the 450 mx machines technology would be WAYYYYY different than the 20 year old designs you're speaking of
I try.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sierra Thumper View Post
And thats what I'll probably own within the next year or 2
Smart man.



My G650X weighs less then 320 wet and has mid 50's HP. The craziest bike I rode was an aprilia RXV 5.5 dual sport. It had over 70hp at the crank easily as it was putting down 66 on the dyno. I watched it at Eurosports in Cooperburg, PA personally. I'd kill myself on that beast.
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Old 01-28-2013, 07:37 AM   #113
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I think you can get close to 50 hp out of a dr650 with the typical mods, but you have a hard time dropping 50 pounds off the bike.

I just don't get where all the extra weight comes from.
In 1969, Triumph could build a 500cc twin, with iron cylinders, metal fenders, NO plastic, huge drum brakes, steel wheels, dual exhaust, massive crankshaft, 4 quart oil tank, heavy steel clutch and primary chain, and get the weight well under 350 pounds.
Easy to save 50 pounds on that bike, maybe 75 pounds, and it was strong, I crashed it many times without damage.
I even did 2 up dirt riding many times on it without anything breaking.

It just seems like we should be able to have a strong bike with good power in a 500 to 650 cc range from the Japanese coming in around 300 pounds, what with all the plastic and other modern meterials, without it having to be a race bike.
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:57 AM   #114
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Light weight, high HP, reasonable cost. Pick any two. Economics dictates that you can't have all three.

We've discussed this on many threads. The difference between a KTM 500 EXC enduro racer at 255 lbs. wet weight. and a true 450cc Dual Sport with similar performance is a least 40 lbs: DOT lights, real rear subframe, high output alternator and matching battery, larger tank filled with gas, a real seat, and some other details. 260 lbs. for the same DS package just isn't realistic yet, and would cost more than the current KTM race bikes.

Enter the KTM 690 Enduro R: 66 hp at the crank, 325 lbs. wet with a 12-liter (3.2 gal US) tank. Price in the US for 2013 is almost $12k.
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:41 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryphon12 View Post
Light weight, high HP, reasonable cost. Pick any two. Economics dictates that you can't have all three.
Unless you choose "reasonable cost," then it's pick one and you've chosen reasonable cost.

Not light:
WR250R - 295 lbs
KLX250S - 297
CRF250L - 320
DRZ400S - 320
KLR, DR, XRL - LOL

Lighter:
TW200 - 280
DR200 - 280
Kind of light, but not really when you consider that they are 200s with the physical size of children's bikes.
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:30 PM   #116
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Forgot long service, and load ratings.
Easy to make something light and powerful if it only has to last a short time (race bike).

I once had an IT175, what a hoot to ride, but every ride had something break or wear out, it had wheel bearings smaller then whats on skateboards, bicycle size brakes, fast wearing rings and crank bearings, reed valves that broke off and got eaten by the motor, etc.

I also had a 1st gen xl250 which you could ride for years and not have anything wear out of break, about a 200 pound difference between bikes I think!




Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryphon12 View Post
Light weight, high HP, reasonable cost. Pick any two. Economics dictates that you can't have all three.

We've discussed this on many threads. The difference between a KTM 500 EXC enduro racer at 255 lbs. wet weight. and a true 450cc Dual Sport with similar performance is a least 40 lbs: DOT lights, real rear subframe, high output alternator and matching battery, larger tank filled with gas, a real seat, and some other details. 260 lbs. for the same DS package just isn't realistic yet, and would cost more than the current KTM race bikes.

Enter the KTM 690 Enduro R: 66 hp at the crank, 325 lbs. wet with a 12-liter (3.2 gal US) tank. Price in the US for 2013 is almost $12k.
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:32 PM   #117
NJ-Brett
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The xt225 and crf230 were light....


Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeYZ View Post
Unless you choose "reasonable cost," then it's pick one and you've chosen reasonable cost.

Not light:
WR250R - 295 lbs
KLX250S - 297
CRF250L - 320
DRZ400S - 320
KLR, DR, XRL - LOL

Lighter:
TW200 - 280
DR200 - 280
Kind of light, but not really when you consider that they are 200s with the physical size of children's bikes.
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:35 PM   #118
Grreatdog
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It doesn't have to be heavy to be strong. Unless you also want it to be cheap. If you want cheap and strong then heavy is part of that bargain.
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:47 PM   #119
UtahFox
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Originally Posted by Kawidad View Post
It must be winter again.
LOL - nailed it!

Some bike porn from this morning...



Sexy huh?

P.S. The color of the scooter is manly green.
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:55 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ-Brett View Post
The xt225 and crf230 were light....
WR450 <275lbs
-easy to plate
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