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Old 06-17-2013, 09:07 PM   #301
jasonmt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryphon12 View Post
I really like the flexibility of changing front (countershaft) sprockets to easily change gear ratios, depending on where I'm going on any particular trip. The lack of this easy flexibility on this bike is really troubling. A very small thing, I know, but it has major ramifications for me.

The co-axial CS / swing arm pivot was an Enduro race concept in the original BMW engine / frame design. I my opinion, it hurts this bike's intended performance envelope, rather than helping it.

Without a factory installed, wide-ratio, 6-speed transmission, this bike is not looking like it will meet my expectations. I'm willing to wait and see, since I can't afford a new bike at the moment, but I will never buy a new bike with the need to split the cases for an essential upgrade (5-sp to 6-sp).

To CCM: If you please, we need the Primary gear ratios as well as the internal ratios for each gear to properly evaluate gearing. TIA.
If the CCM frame uses the Husky style split pins for the swingarm it is a under 10 minute job to change the CS sprocket. If CCM are really thinking they will have a longer than required rear brake line and then you would not have to remove the rear wheel to change the CS Sprocket.

Seeing as how CCM has already said they were homologating the bike with the existing 5 speed gear set the primary and internal gear ratios have already been posted multiple times in this thread.

I personally have no huge issues with the bike coming with the BMW gear set as the bike is not handicapped with meagre power output like a CRF 230F (3.78 gear spread and it suffers from it, the little bastard has one) or a 600cc+ displacement and the corresponding lower peak power RPM and rev limit. Change the gearing to 14-44 and if you are planning on having to spend a long time cruising at 105km/h+ then take 10-15 minutes and put a 15 tooth CS sprocket on. It will cruise along at 105km/h at 5500RPM (which is ~1/2 of the rev limiter RPM) and it is not a KLR where nothing much really happens after 5500-6000RPM.

Not saying a little bit wider gearbox would not be appreciated but to me it is not a show stopper.
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Old 06-18-2013, 01:49 AM   #302
Gryphon12
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Sorry, but I haven't seen the primary gearing on this thread. I may have missed it, but the TE449/511 have 2.618:1 primary ratios - between the crank and the transmission input shaft. (This is approximately 76:29).

I don't have numbers for the G450-series - and I've searched the web for them on multiple occasions. They may be in the owner's or technical manuals, but I haven't seen anyone posting that information on other threads.

[Sometimes Primary and Final gearing refers to countershaft and rear wheel sprockets, respectively, but that's not the formal meaning of "primary" gears.]
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Old 06-18-2013, 08:11 AM   #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryphon12 View Post
Sorry, but I haven't seen the primary gearing on this thread. I may have missed it, but the TE449/511 have 2.618:1 primary ratios - between the crank and the transmission input shaft. (This is approximately 76:29).

I don't have numbers for the G450-series - and I've searched the web for them on multiple occasions. They may be in the owner's or technical manuals, but I haven't seen anyone posting that information on other threads.

[Sometimes Primary and Final gearing refers to countershaft and rear wheel sprockets, respectively, but that's not the formal meaning of "primary" gears.]
as said the final desision on the gearbox has not been made
i actually spoke to ccm in person and options for the final gearbox spec and spread were still being considered
they specifically asked me not to say anything about it so im not going to ..as its NOT YET SET

.if it proves to be the g450x box ..it wont stop me buying if for sure .
but i sure as heck wouldnt be objecting to a overdive 5th or 6th though if it was possible ..

i think we are close to reaching a point where we can stop speculating
.and then everone can make up their mind if it fits their bill

ride reports should be coming on stream from different buyers and press riders in mid july ..that will also help people to get a real feel for the machine .. from different riders with different prospectives
-
i guess the crunch will come in how the real bike feels and performs on real road and trails ...

any way i have a 450 x 2009 manual if that can help until we know for sure i would expect the 2010/11 to be the same but i really dont know im afraid
.... gearing taken straight from the manual

regards steve

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Old 06-18-2013, 11:23 AM   #304
jasonmt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryphon12 View Post
Sorry, but I haven't seen the primary gearing on this thread. I may have missed it, but the TE449/511 have 2.618:1 primary ratios - between the crank and the transmission input shaft. (This is approximately 76:29).

I don't have numbers for the G450-series - and I've searched the web for them on multiple occasions. They may be in the owner's or technical manuals, but I haven't seen anyone posting that information on other threads.

[Sometimes Primary and Final gearing refers to countershaft and rear wheel sprockets, respectively, but that's not the formal meaning of "primary" gears.]
Whoops - thought I had posted it but the BMW G450 & Husky TE/TXC/TC/SMR 449/511 all have the same primary drive ratio of 2.618:1:

PRIMARY DRIVE
Drive pinion gear . . . . . . . . . Z 32
Clutch ring gear . . . . . . . . . . . . Z 22
Transmission ratio. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2.618

Quote:
Originally Posted by minkyhead View Post
as said the final desision on the gearbox has not been made
i actually spoke to ccm in person and options for the final gearbox spec and spread were still being considered
they specifically asked me not to say anything about it so im not going to ..as its NOT YET SET

.if it proves to be the g450x box ..it wont stop me buying if for sure .
but i sure as heck wouldnt be objecting to a overdive 5th or 6th though if it was possible ..

i think we are close to reaching a point where we can stop speculating
.and then everone can make up their mind if it fits their bill

ride reports should be coming on stream from different buyers and press riders in mid july ..that will also help people to get a real feel for the machine .. from different riders with different prospectives
-
i guess the crunch will come in how the real bike feels and performs on real road and trails ...

any way i have a 450 x 2009 manual if that can help until we know for sure i would expect the 2010/11 to be the same but i really dont know im afraid
.... gearing taken straight from the manual

regards steve
From post 232 it sure looks like they are planning on going with the BWM spec 5 speed transmission to homologate and get the bike into production.

I would much rather have a hydro clutch and lots of mapping options to get rid of that shown below (and run low octane fuel possibly) than a non OEM spec gear set in the transmission.



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Old 06-18-2013, 03:44 PM   #305
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Laugh

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonmt View Post
If the CCM frame uses the Husky style split pins for the swingarm it is a under 10 minute job to change the CS sprocket. If CCM are really thinking they will have a longer than required rear brake line and then you would not have to remove the rear wheel to change the CS Sprocket.

Seeing as how CCM has already said they were homologating the bike with the existing 5 speed gear set the primary and internal gear ratios have already been posted multiple times in this thread.

I personally have no huge issues with the bike coming with the BMW gear set as the bike is not handicapped with meagre power output like a CRF 230F (3.78 gear spread and it suffers from it, the little bastard has one) or a 600cc+ displacement and the corresponding lower peak power RPM and rev limit. Change the gearing to 14-44 and if you are planning on having to spend a long time cruising at 105km/h+ then take 10-15 minutes and put a 15 tooth CS sprocket on. It will cruise along at 105km/h at 5500RPM (which is ~1/2 of the rev limiter RPM) and it is not a KLR where nothing much really happens after 5500-6000RPM.

Not saying a little bit wider gearbox would not be appreciated but to me it is not a show stopper.
im undrstanding here that you have run a g450 this way ../??or the six speed husky ??
and found it alright ?? ..its good to hear about the sprockets .
.ive read a few threads saying its pretty easy to do once used to it ..and no big 32ml nut to worry about

your wrong about the klr though .. nothing much happens before 5500 revs as well after ..... ..she does a job though
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Old 06-18-2013, 04:58 PM   #306
jasonmt
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14-44 is pretty close to 15-48 (stock BMW Gearing) but gives you the option of going up to a 15 tooth CS sprocket when needed as I do not believe a 16 tooth CS sprocket is available (or if it would fit).

My Husky 449 spends most of the time with a 13-51 combo on it (tops out at ~125km/h) but I could not see any issues with a well mapped one pulling 15-44 gears for highway work as long as third gear power wheelies were not your expectation.
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Old 06-18-2013, 05:52 PM   #307
minkyhead
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonmt View Post
14-44 is pretty close to 15-48 (stock BMW Gearing) but gives you the option of going up to a 15 tooth CS sprocket when needed as I do not believe a 16 tooth CS sprocket is available (or if it would fit).

My Husky 449 spends most of the time with a 13-51 combo on it (tops out at ~125km/h) but I could not see any issues with a well mapped one pulling 15-44 gears for highway work as long as third gear power wheelies were not your expectation.
now thats a real cute idea ..lateral thinking ....thanks .. does the chain link count and adjusters
cover such a big spread of sprocket changes ie 14/44 13/51 or is their a limtation with the combos you can use on the original length chain .. there is a big gap between enduro and road for sure
how do you rate 14/44 for general duel sport riding ..as opposed to goat tracks and gnarly rooted tracks if you see what i mean


thanks for the heads up ... from what i can tell thre are few people that have ridden this engine in a duel sport way ..it mostly flat out reports i see ...so im very interested on what you think ..a few words on the lugabilty side of the engine would be welcome ..as its not generally what the doner bike was intended to do .. stalling and pick up a problem for instance ..clutching required ..that sort of thing ??

thanks steve
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Old 06-19-2013, 12:04 PM   #308
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If they bring these to the US I will definitely own one. This looks great so far, very excited!

Being new to the scene I'm actually surprised there aren't more like this with a 450.
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Old 06-23-2013, 04:12 PM   #309
minkyhead
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first picture i have seen of theccm being ridden
abeit in a parade to be featured in the uks top gear tv programe
at least shes up and running ..looking pretty lean too ..apart from that can at the back .. which seems pretty big taken in perspective ..but looking pretty good i think ..the rider looks really small ..its comparable to a crf 250 to sit on the crf seat being 7ml closer to the ground

,,first ride for me early july on the factory open day
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Old 06-23-2013, 08:19 PM   #310
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OH Man! I'd really love to own one of these, please bring them to OZ!

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Old 06-23-2013, 08:32 PM   #311
johngil
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I'm starting to think I should just pick up a TE 449/511.
IMS has a tank, and a mini fairing can be done.
Neat looking bike, but it will be a red headed bastard in the US.
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Old 06-23-2013, 08:40 PM   #312
AustinJake
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I'm starting to think I should just pick up a TE 449/511.
IMS has a tank, and a mini fairing can be done.
That's the ticket!
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Old 06-23-2013, 10:42 PM   #313
rickypanecatyl
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Minky did you see the rider? Is he exceptionally small?

It sure looks nice and lean!
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Old 06-24-2013, 01:27 AM   #314
BygDaddee
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Wasca, your misses says you can't have one, your already on your second bike in 12 months

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OH Man! I'd really love to own one of these, please bring them to OZ!
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Old 06-24-2013, 02:39 AM   #315
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Foot peg to seat hight looks wrong
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