True Dualsports getting heavier and less powerful?

[Canuman]

Here we have a rider that's got some seat time and can be a well-known prick when he wants. I think his assessment is accurate. Nicely said.

Originally Posted by CA Stu

Is this premise really accurate?

If it is, I think that the weight / power aspect may be attributed to the fact that the early dual sports were more off-road oriented, with a few owners being silly enough to ride their "enduros" on the road, versus today the dual sport market of motorcycle manufacturers gravitating more towards "Adventure riding", which seems to incorporate far longer highway jaunts to get to the dirt...

Anyway, my 99 KLR is 10 times better both on and off road than my 76 XT500 ever was, and my 07 Super Enduro will rip the lungs out of either of those machines, on or off road, and my 08 TE 610 will leave them both for dead up a rocky / sandy gnarly trail.

I like the way the dual sport market is going.

More choices, more specialization means that a person can find what they think is the ideal dual sport machine for their style of riding.
The potential WR250R buyer won't have the same riding goals as the potential F800GS buyer, and that is good for both the consumer and the manufacturer, I reckon.

Pure numbers alone (neither weight nor peak horsepower) don't mean a whole lot in the real world, I reckon.

Thanks
CA Stu

PS Give me a great suspension over more horsepower every time.

[WARRIORPRINCEJJ]

Originally Posted by CA Stu

...If it is, I think that the weight / power aspect may be attributed to the fact that the early dual sports were more off-road oriented, with a few owners being silly enough to ride their "enduros" on the road, versus today the dual sport market of motorcycle manufacturers gravitating more towards "Adventure riding", which seems to incorporate far longer highway jaunts to get to the dirt...



...I like the way the dual sport market is going.

More choices, more specialization means that a person can find what they think is the ideal dual sport machine for their style of riding.
The potential WR250R buyer won't have the same riding goals as the potential F800GS buyer, and that is good for both the consumer and the manufacturer, I reckon...

I was thinkin' these exact same thoughts, earlier, but just couldn't express them as efficiently and eloquently...


.

[CJBDRdude]

Originally Posted by elsalvadorklr

the enduro or adventure model?

Enduro model

[elsalvadorklr]

PS Give me a great suspension over more horsepower every time. [/QUOTE]

EXACTLY!

people rave about power...

I might add that suspension and brakes is what make a bike go fast, ESPECIALLY an offroad bike...

anyways dualposrts today kick ass and Im still a firm beleiver in that there is no better value, as a dualsport and world traveller than a KLR650...you just cant find it...

08 and up models with the windscreen and better road manners for touring the world you just cant beat it...Ive tried...and seen people try..Ive also seen people go back to a klr when decided to cross borders a lot.

anyways

flame on

[elsalvadorklr]

Originally Posted by CJBDRdude

Enduro model

yup they are less bulky than the adventure for sure...

I ride an xr600...and we used to ride with full suited adventure guys...and they suffered...I dont mean this in a bad way, but just like I suffer when riding with husky guys and wr450 guys and the whole ktm crowd on my bike...the bigger guys suffer with my ccd type bikes...

its just the way it is...

no power will ever get you out of a tight steep hill...its the weight and the bulk that kill you...the loads imposed on the terrain and the way the bike responds...ive seen it a million times...

big bikes simply suck going up gnarly stuff...

notice I say gnarly not just steep or long etc...

cheers

ps. I am envious of your hp numbers for sure...ktms are great in that respect and as a builder boast the best power to weight specs than anybody else, at least production model wise...and I have no issues accepting that

[Foot dragger]

I dont think the japanese dualsports were ever light,maybe in their claimed weights but not in real life. A 1972 XL250 was over 300 lbs dry,a 2013 CRF250L is over 310 lbs dry. Both are slower then molasses in january and need thousands spent to make them even halfway decent in the dirt. Spending $ is half the fun......right?
How Honda can make a 250 weigh almost as much as a 650 is beyond me. Cheaply built is one way to do it.

The definition of "real" dualsport is as varied as can be,My DR650 is as close to a 50/50 dirt/street bike as Ive tried.

Some how the 530 gets the nod more often then not though,I ride for the fun of it and a good running 530 or any big dirtbike with a plate is more grins per mile then most any other bike. Its OK on the street and they arent that maintenance intensive.

[Foot dragger]

Originally Posted by elsalvadorklr

PS Give me a great suspension over more horsepower every time.

EXACTLY!

people rave about power...

I might add that suspension and brakes is what make a bike go fast, ESPECIALLY an offroad bike...

anyways dualposrts today kick ass and Im still a firm beleiver in that there is no better value, as a dualsport and world traveller than a KLR650...you just cant find it...

08 and up models with the windscreen and better road manners for touring the world you just cant beat it...Ive tried...and seen people try..Ive also seen people go back to a klr when decided to cross borders a lot.

anyways

flame on[/QUOTE]I think that people who like KLR's,will tend to like them alot.

[Albie]

Originally Posted by RB450

What is a "true dualsport"?

KTM's are all plateable and ready to ride on street or dirt right out of the box.

Plenty of horsepower, and light waeight through the range...

Too me, a true dual SPORT is something that will rail in the twisties and blast through gnarly single track. That's why I love my 450 EXC.

[OrangeYZ]

Originally Posted by elsalvadorklr

people rave about power...

flame on

OK!

You know who raves about power? KLR owners.

The argument I see most in these threads is that KTM owners are power junkies compensating for something and that they need to learn that weight, suspension and brakes are more important for riding off road. Apparently while writing this out they forget that KTMs are generally lighter than their direct competition, typically have more suspension travel and it's adjustable, and have brake lines that aren't made of drinking straws.

350EXC - 240 lbs
WR250R - 295 lbs (I was referring to the KLR with shit susp. and brakes, not this bike)
An extra quart of oil and longer lasting valves shouldn't weigh 55 lbs.
Having all of the power I need at 1/4 throttle is a bonus

Thread self destruct: Engaged

[elsalvadorklr]

are we not on the same page? I happen to love both ktms and klr and now my xr600 I mod them to suit me...

when I had my klr I was fully aware that I had the worst power to weight ratio I also know tons who thought the same way...

I did not know klr owners rave about power, I do know that they always want more, and for a right reason...klrs are underpowered for their weight

I think we are on the same page guys, no reason to hackle me! jajaja

play safe folks

christian

[Albie]

Originally Posted by It'sNotTheBike

KTM 690 Enduro :

315 pounds, 60 horsepower.

I'm not sure I see a huge amount of weight or a lack of power there, to be honest

You can say it is not a "true dual sport" because it has a trellis frame and thus
a huge turning circle or that it is a modified supermoto bike ( both claims are true )
but it remains the best dual sport bike for the real world that money can buy in 2013.


So it is difficult to conclude that the world of dual sport bikes has become less wonderful
across the board, though some of the Japanese bikes might indeed be heavy and lack power,
especially compared to the old days when 2-strokes ruled the earth. The Japanese will probably
keep making the same old stuff ( WR250R notwithstanding ) as long as people keep buying it, so
vote with your wallet if you want things to change.



.

My 690 has spent most of it's life as a motard. Mainly because it is hands down the funniest road bike I've ever ridden. The thing lives to eat up curvy mountain roads. It's pretty obvious that's it's true element. As a dual sport, a couple things hurt it, mainly weight. Even at 310 lbs, that is still porky! The FI is not ideal for riding single track, and the gearing isn't wide enough.

[Kawidad]

Don't forget or for those that didn't know, all of the motorcycle manufacturers used to lie through their collective teeth about their weights and to a lesser degree their horsepower. It was only a few years ago the EU cracked the whip and told them to clean up their acts or get fined in a big way, and they'd be checking. The US government also followed suit, so the figures of today are more accurate for a reason.

[elsalvadorklr]

I would say that is very correct

[Steez]

Taking the mentality of riders out of the situation, it also needs to be noted the changing physical environment. As sad as it sounds, lots of roads have been paved in the last 20 years! Possibly this is an indirect reason, but quite valid at that. Can't vouch for the world, but the rideable ds areas are shrinking this area of the country. Do they exist? Yeah for sure! Just a bit farther... I can only imagine many individuals feel this effect as well, and are purchasing more "heavy" bikes for the ride there than before?

Whatever the current affairs of ds bikes is, however, one thing is for certain. Developers are doing the right thing (business-wise, at least) seeing as they're everywhere haha!

[Albie]

Originally Posted by OrangeYZ

OK!

You know who raves about power? KLR owners.

The argument I see most in these threads is that KTM owners are power junkies compensating for something and that they need to learn that weight, suspension and brakes are more important for riding off road. Apparently while writing this out they forget that KTMs are generally lighter than their direct competition, typically have more suspension travel and it's adjustable, and have brake lines that aren't made of drinking straws.

350EXC - 240 lbs
WR250R - 295 lbs (I was referring to the KLR with shit susp. and brakes, not this bike)
An extra quart of oil and longer lasting valves shouldn't weigh 55 lbs.
Having all of the power I need at 1/4 throttle is a bonus

Thread self destruct: Engaged

Exactly, it's not like it's an either or thing. You can have plenty of power and great suspension all in one package. You can even get all that with light weight thrown in!