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Old 01-23-2013, 08:44 AM   #16
reubenRN
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Motoport kevlar mesh with quad armor. If it saves you 1 day in the hospital, you pretty much break even on the price.
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:47 AM   #17
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I think you are making a mistake not at least considering the Rallye 3. It doesn't comply with your requirements that it have no waterproof liners, but the idea of liners is to maintain the waterproof nature of the suit despite a fall, and the liners enable you to layer (or not) depending on the temps.

BMW gear is expensive, but I think you get a lot of value for your money. Its not the most expensive, but I don't see how the more expensive stuff is really any better.

It also stands to reason that their gear be high quality and high value, as BMW has the money for R+D, and the volume to better control price.

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Old 01-23-2013, 09:00 AM   #18
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Klim Adventure Rally 2013 or Stalder Evo, depending on what environment you ride in and how high you value waterproofness built in one single suit or two.
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:24 AM   #19
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Great responses

Hey all, enjoying the discussion unfolding here, interesting to read about the gear that different folk perceive as the best out there at the moment.
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Old 01-23-2013, 11:24 AM   #20
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If I had unlimited bank, which I do not, I would wait for the KLIM Adventure Air or just buy the Touratech Campanero right now. I know you dont want layers, but as others have stated, true 1 piece Goretex suits are HOT above 85-90F. I have worn BMW gear - hated the liners... Aerostich Darien - still wear it as an oversuit in the winter.... Revit - hated the liners and the quality was not equal to the price point.... and now wear 2nd Gen KLIM Adv jacket with Badlands pants. I just think the latest group of breathable mesh suits are the way to go..with an integrated outer Goretex jacket... that way you stop, put on the outer layer.. and at the end of the day you have a thin layer that needs to dry out rather than the whole jacket like you would with an inner layered jacket. Plus you have expanded your ability to ride to a true fours seasons.
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:57 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bastimentos View Post
Hey Guys,

Ride a R1200GS in a variety of terrain and climates throughout europe. Need a all-in-one top of the line set up in terms of jacket and pants, no extra waterproof layers/liners to add please, that waterproofing needs to be built into the outside of the jacket.

I'm about to pop a deposit down with atomic moto for the new Klim Adventure Rally 2 J+P combo and just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing any options out there that are highly regarded by inmates before I place an order.

I basically want the safest setup I can find, and Klim seems to be well regarded here and as it stands I'm inclined to believe their materials and build quality are about as high-end as I can go. I am hoping the AR2 uses their latest technology to great effect but i'll be taking a punt on that as it ships in March.

Let me know if there is anything else I should be considering please.



Hard to beat Rukka in overall quality and performance. BMW stuff doesn't come close to having the fit and finish of Rukka and we have a few top BMW pieces of gear currently to directly compare, not just my guess, and have had others over the years. BMW is higher quality than most more common gear found in the USA though and is good stuff, just not quite as refined as Rukka.
Rukka has been leading the market for many years in design, using the best materials that others just started recently using / copying.
Depends if you want a suit from a company with over 50 years experience that makes their own garments in house, or a KLIM suit that follows others designs with outsourced manufacturing in China. That's not even taking into account KLIM was just bought out by Polaris and nobody really knows what that will mean for the QC of their stuff, could be good, could be bad and only time will tell.

I have many miles in my Rukka Armas and trust it completely to keep me safe, dry and comfortable in ANY weather, using a cool vest for very hot weather riding, and a Gerbings electric liner in very cold long distance riding. I have found the vents on the shoulders of my Armas to be more than adequate for hot weather riding in all my travels. Mesh is not an option for long distance riding IMO, I wear BMW mesh gear around town though.

Seeing where you live, you should have access to other top quality Euro brands I'm not even too familiar with, I can only go by my own experience and Rukka is the best I've laid eyes on with the long standing reputation, ratings and awards to back it up, not to mention my own years of riding in it.
One thing is for sure, after seeing many friends with them, I never think of the high end KLIM as being the best gear a person can buy, just baggy looking, ill fitting suits sized better for large Americans, and is looks like a copy of other designs/materials that's been very well marketed to the ADV crowd with countless sponsorships to get the KLIM name out. Very well marketed and widespread availability at many dealers in the USA is what makes it so popular around here methinks, not because it's the "best". Best is subjective as hell anyways.
Never owned one though, just my observation and opinion so you Klim owners don't get your panties in a bunch, we all have our opinions/observations and I'm not personally attacking you.


If the OP wants to look into Rukka more, copy this code into google for a comprehensive search on ADV with all kinds of opinions and overwhelming positive testimonials.

site:advrider.com, rukka
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:46 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Rider View Post
Hard to beat Rukka in overall quality and performance. BMW stuff doesn't come close to having the fit and finish of Rukka and we have a few top BMW pieces of gear currently to directly compare, not just my guess, and have had others over the years. BMW is higher quality than most more common gear found in the USA though and is good stuff, just not quite as refined as Rukka.
not familiar with Armas ... with a three layer Gortex, looks extremely weatherproof and HOT in extreme heat.

how does this jacket feel in 105f+ temps?
or low as 90f?

all multi-layer Goretex jackets start feeling uncomfortably hot at about 85f for me...
that's when Motoport mesh Kevlar comes out ... which sucks in nasty wet weather despite Motoport's claims of being an all weather suit.
BS who wants to put up with a soaked suit in cold/wet nasty condition? even if your insides are dry...

which goes back to two suits for all conditions ... Mesh suits with a bulky oversuit, to me is really two suits. who wants to screw with an extra layer while putting up with all the wires for a heated suit?

have not found a cleaner way to handle heated gear than with one piece Roadcrafter. which is a pita going into restaurants ... sure wish there was truly a One suit that does it all! ... don't think it exist yet...

---------
"Armas"

Materials:
- Gore-Tex Pro Shell 3-layer laminate with Armacor product technology, combination of high-tech fibres aramid (Kevlar) and Cordura
- Waterproof Gore Lockout closure in front
- Tear and abrasion resistant GTX Super Fabric reinforcements
- Cuffs and detachable collar of elastic 3-layer Gore-Tex fabric

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Old 01-23-2013, 06:15 PM   #23
Lost Rider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _cy_ View Post
not familiar with Armas ... with a three layer Gortex, looks extremely weatherproof and HOT in extreme heat.

how does this jacket feel in 105f+ temps?
or low as 90f?

all multi-layer Goretex jackets start feeling uncomfortably hot at about 85f for me...

---------
"Armas"

Materials:
- Gore-Tex Pro Shell 3-layer laminate with Armacor product technology, combination of high-tech fibres aramid (Kevlar) and Cordura
- Waterproof Gore Lockout closure in front
- Tear and abrasion resistant GTX Super Fabric reinforcements
- Cuffs and detachable collar of elastic 3-layer Gore-Tex fabric


Well, the hottest I rode in it was while crossing Oklahoma on the TAT in early September 2010 with 113F and high humidity. Record heat wave. Combined with a cool vest I survived, though over 105 or when you stop moving heat was a problem and uncomfortable no matter how you put it. Could not imagine doing that same ride with mesh, would have killed me. Many miles in 80-100 with a cool vest is no issue. Good to 80 for me without a vest and vents open while moving. When wet underneath it's actually amazing how comfortable I am up to 100, feels about as good as when the Gerbings is cranked up when it's 30, like cheating. I also pour water down the arms when it's real hot, that with a vest makes for comfy riding for a couple hours or more depending on your speed. You do need some airflow for the water to cool you though. Usually I keep the jacket zipped all the way up when it's hot using the vest, the vents have enough airflow and the less humidity the better the cooling. I've actually been quite cold when in the desert and going up in altitude the temp drops below 80 when wet in the Rukka.

I think people underestimate how efficient those small vents on the shoulders that act like air ducts and make air flow down your back and chest, but we are all different.
The other factors in my experience would be I wear an XD3 helmet with excellent airflow as opposed my street helmet most of the time, I also pour water in the helmet when refilling the rest and never wear cotton, only lightweight wicking high tech fabric underneath.
The Outlast liner for the Armas is also true to the marketing and better than any other liner I've have in BMW or Rev'it gear, flexible in various temps, good up to 75 (low humidity) and really helps keep you warm when in real cold temps. Great to use when in the mountains and the temps are fluctuating between 40 and 70, no stopping needed.

To me, the Rukka Armas is a true four season jacket, I've ridden all four types of weather in a matter of days plenty of times. All day, all week below freezing or above 90, rain or snow I'm good to go.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:38 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Rider View Post
Well, the hottest I rode in it was while crossing Oklahoma on the TAT in early September 2010 with 113F and high humidity. Record heat wave. Combined with a cool vest I survived, though over 105 or when you stop moving heat was a problem and uncomfortable no matter how you put it. Could not imagine doing that same ride with mesh, would have killed me. Many miles in 80-100 with a cool vest is no issue. Good to 80 for me without a vest and vents open while moving. When wet underneath it's actually amazing how comfortable I am up to 100, feels about as good as when the Gerbings is cranked up when it's 30, like cheating. I also pour water down the arms when it's real hot, that with a vest makes for comfy riding for a couple hours or more depending on your speed. You do need some airflow for the water to cool you though. Usually I keep the jacket zipped all the way up when it's hot using the vest, the vents have enough airflow and the less humidity the better the cooling. I've actually been quite cold when in the desert and going up in altitude the temp drops below 80 when wet in the Rukka.

I think people underestimate how efficient those small vents on the shoulders that act like air ducts and make air flow down your back and chest, but we are all different.
The other factors in my experience would be I wear an XD3 helmet with excellent airflow as opposed my street helmet most of the time, I also pour water in the helmet when refilling the rest and never wear cotton, only lightweight wicking high tech fabric underneath.
The Outlast liner for the Armas is also true to the marketing and better than any other liner I've have in BMW or Rev'it gear, flexible in various temps, good up to 75 (low humidity) and really helps keep you warm when in real cold temps. Great to use when in the mountains and the temps are fluctuating between 40 and 70, no stopping needed.

To me, the Rukka Armas is a true four season jacket, I've ridden all four types of weather in a matter of days plenty of times. All day, all week below freezing or above 90, rain or snow I'm good to go.
sounds extremely uncomfortable 80-100f which is what I'll be riding at most of the summer. that's why I'll be using Motoport Mesh Kevlar most of the summer, then switch back to one piece Roadcrafter (single layer Goretex) when nasties hit. which Armas sounds like it does outstanding job with cold nasty conditions.

could do the same with one piece Roadcrafter, that you are doing with Armas... but why? it's gets way too hot with any Gortex 80f + unless a cooling vest is used. not with two piece Roadcrafter which is multi-layer and miserably hot over 75f. wonder if I used a cooling vest I could tolerate two piece roadcrafter to 100f ...

have you seen the comments from folks traveling with multi-layer Klim adventure suits ... gets too hot ...

only need to dump water on core at temps 100f+ .. just like riding bicycles....
why be hot riding 80-100f when Motoport Mesh Kevlar is comfortable without a cooling vest?

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Old 01-23-2013, 06:51 PM   #25
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Rukka gear



http://www.adventuremotorcyclegear.c...hing-c-22.html

areostich 2nd

Motoport? fine if you only need it twice a year.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:53 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _cy_ View Post
sounds extremely uncomfortable 80-100f which is what I'll be riding at most of the summer. that's why I'll be using Motoport Mesh Kevlar most of the summer, then switch back to one piece Roadcrafter (single layer Goretex) when nasties hit. which Armas sounds like it does outstanding job with cold nasty conditions.

could do the same with one piece Roadcrafter, that you are doing with Armas... but why? it's gets way too hot with any Gortex 80f + unless a cooling vest is used. not with two piece Roadcrafter which is multi-layer and miserably hot over 75f. wonder if I used a cooling vest I could tolerate two piece roadcrafter to 100f ...

have you seen the comments from folks traveling with multi-layer Klim adventure suits ... gets too hot ...

only need to dump water on core at temps 100f+ .. just like riding bicycles....
why be hot riding 80-100f when Motoport Mesh Kevlar is comfortable without a cooling vest?


Because on that same ride where I rode through OK in a heat wave, I also rode though snow and days of cold rain in Idaho, Oregon, Washington, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, etc.
I was relatively comfortable and completely dry the whole time.

I have BMW mesh gear, it's great for local rides around town where I don't want to get wet with a vest but have tried to travel with it and it was a disaster. Mesh doesn't cool the air around you, and with too much airflow your sweat will not have time to cool you down. 100 hot air blowing on you is still 100 hot air blowing on you, with a gortex jacket with some airflow and a vest the temperature around your body is much cooler than the outside air. Personal air conditioning that you can't get if there's too much airflow. That's been my experience, we are all different ya know.
It is extremely comfortable in 80-100 weather with a cool vest in the Armas.

I have not seen comments on Klim riding being hot in warm weather, I'm not in the market for riding gear, I already have what works best for me. Maybe that has more to do with Klims design and not the materials?
Assuming completely different suits that use similar materials will perform the same makes no sense at all.
I'm talking about a versatile do it all suit and how I do it in the Armas to directly answer the OP's question, not talking about what kind of specialized gear is best in specific types of riding. Everything is a compromise, I choose to have to use a cool vest when I travel so I can stay warm and dry on the other days.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:57 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Rider View Post
Because on that same ride where I rode through OK in a heat wave, I also rode though snow and days of cold rain in Idaho, Oregon, Washington, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, etc.
I was relatively comfortable and completely dry the whole time.

I have BMW mesh gear, it's great for local rides around town where I don't want to get wet with a vest but have tried to travel with it and it was a disaster. Mesh doesn't cool the air around you, and with too much airflow your sweat will not have time to cool you down. 100 hot air blowing on you is still 100 hot air blowing on you, with a gortex jacket with some airflow and a vest the temperature around your body is much cooler than the outside air. Personal air conditioning that you can't get if there's too much airflow. That's been my experience, we are all different ya know.
It is extremely comfortable in 80-100 weather with a cool vest in the Armas.

I'm talking about a versatile do it all suit and how I do it in the Armas to directly answer the OP's question, not talking about what kind of specialized gear is best in specific types of riding. Everything is a compromise, I choose to have to use a cool vest when I travel so I can stay warm and dry on the other days.
ok.. we are on the same page... except I chose to take two suits with me. instead of having to use a cooling vest from 80-100f.
would rather not compromise on my comfort ... which is where Klim is headed with their mesh suit with a full coverall for nasties. essentially two suits...

which leads back to my earlier comment about starting to think it's not possible for one suit to do it all. it takes two suits...

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Old 01-23-2013, 07:01 PM   #28
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ok.. we are on the same page... except I chose to take two suits with me. instead of having to use a cooling vest from 80-100f


Right on.


No compromise on my comfort either, quite the contrary, I just do what works well for me.
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:28 PM   #29
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I agree with most of what Finn has to say about the Armas. The only thing I'd add is that it doesn't work as well in humidity. That is the killer. I was amazed how cool I was the first time I poured water down the sleeves and down the neck on my Armas. 80ish deg., and I was a little chilly cruising down the NJ turnpike last spring. The only problem is that it isn't a commuting solution, or one for being on/off the bike a lot, which I spend a lot of time doing. Thanks to that, I pretty much put it away until Fall, then I'm reminded just how damn good Rukka gear really is come Spring. If fit is important to the OP, it really just doesn't get much better, and it's not just for the thin Euro boys either. Some of us might have a bit of a beer belly and it still fits exceptionally

Agree also with the cold weather use in the Armas. Awesome. Mine is probably ready for a good wash and retreat as water doesn't bead up anymore, but I never get wet. Or cold. Liners are usually something I toss, preferring proper layers & heat. Not in this case, the Outlast liner really does work. I keep it in from around 55-75. Rukka armor doesn't get hard in the cold either, which is a plus in my book.

I got to try on the Stadler Companero (This is Stadler boys, not Touratech) at the NY bike show last weekend. It's definitely Rukka build quality and its a great design, but its hardly as revolutionary as folks want to believe it is. There are two 6'ish zippers on either side of the main zipper for zipping the outer on. Add a couple zippers to any mesh or heavily vented suit on earth and a waterproof outer to zip to it, and that's the basic concept. What you're really paying for is Stadler build quality, materials, 10 year warranty and of course goretex proshell.

I'm not sure the answer could be given online since everyone is different. Some like mesh. Some don't. some want complexity in design. Some don't. Some are fine with having one suit that excels in some areas, but not in others. they're all a compromise. The new Klim Adventure Rally suit is pretty impressive in materials. It looks to be 100% Armacor, with the exception of the huge superfabric panels. I mean, WOW! Pretty impressive. I don't know of any other suit on earth that uses Armacor as its primary fabric.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:39 AM   #30
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Quote:
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BMW gear is expensive, but I think you get a lot of value for your money. Its not the most expensive, but I don't see how the more expensive stuff is really any better.
Seriously?!?! Oh, wait. You said the MORE expensive stuff is not any better. Right. The Motoport Mesh Kevlar is actually LESS expensive (a LOT less) than the Rallye 3 (from the prices I found, anyway).

The info I found on the Rallye 3 doesn't even say what the suit is actually made from. That should tell you something right there. I believe it is made from some non-Kevlar textile. On that basis, I will say that Motoport Mesh Kevlar is better (by a LONG ways) because good leather is stronger than any non-Kevlar textile. And MP mesh Kevlar is roughly 10 time stronger than good leather.

The Rallye 3 has a liner to make it waterproof - as does the MP suit, so no advantage to either, there. But, the mesh Kevlar cools you way better, so another advantage to Motoport.

Oh, and the MP gear is made to your measurements, so it should fit perfectly. Mine does.

Also, my MP mesh Kevlar, with the MP Aero-tex liner in is noticeably cooler to wear than my Roadcrafter 1pc suit. The Aero-tex seems to breathe noticeably better than the Roadcrafter's Gore-tex. It is normal for me to take off my Roadcrafter and be able to feel some dampness on the inside of the suilt. I don't recall ever taking off my MP suit with Aero-tex liner in and felt dampness on the inside of the liner. Sure, I might be damp, if it's hot enough out, but I'm talking about dampness on the inside of the suit itself.

I have worn my mesh Kevlar in ambient temps up to 113F and down to the low 40s. For shorter rides, it is comfortable with no liner down into the mid-50s. For longer rides, it needs the Aero-tex liner once it gets down to the low 60s or so. And with my Warm n Safe Gen WP heated, waterproof liner instead of the Aero-tex, I'm not sure how low I can go. So far, the coldest I've ridden in with that setup is low 40s and, for that, I turned the heated liner up to 50% to be comfortable (on a multi-hour ride).
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