Lithium-Ion batteries

[Twilight Error]

Originally Posted by BigDave75

I have had to pull mine back out of the GSA because it will barely crank it over in the cold. I am actually getting a full refund so no harm no foul.

It was 7 degrees this morning when I started my bike to go to work. The Odyssey battery I've got didn't like it, but the motor did eventually fire (after the voltage dipped low enough to reset my RID clock).

[BigDave75]

Originally Posted by Twilight Error

It was 7 degrees this morning when I started my bike to go to work. The Odyssey battery I've got didn't like it, but the motor did eventually fire (after the voltage dipped low enough to reset my RID clock).

That is exactly what mine does even in 30 degree weather. I can't help but think that it isn't real good on the starter or the electronics.

[Twilight Error]

Originally Posted by BigDave75

That is exactly what mine does even in 30 degree weather. I can't help but think that it isn't real good on the starter or the electronics.

Tomorrow is supposed to be colder, we're expecting -3, I've got my booster pack on the charger now. I won't even try to crank the motor without the extra (and warm) capacity on the system.

[everycredit]

For lithium-ion batteries to work, the charging controller has to be built into the battery as no BMW bike (that I know of) has a charging controller.

[def]

Originally Posted by Twilight Error

I used to build LiIon batteries for the aerospace market. I would not install any one of the current crop of commercial LiIon batteries into my bike. The charging systems we've got are designed around Lead-Acid, which are vastly more tolerant of abuse than any LiIon chemistry available. Even the relatively forgiving Iron Phosphate variants don't match up well with our charging systems. I would wait until batteries with dedicated charge control electronics positioned between the charging system and the cells are on the market.

Well, that's enough information for me to stay clear of LiFePo as engine start batteries.

Now as for R/C airplanes? I might give that a try but I still like big glow engines for R/C flying...I guess the sounds of a well adjusted Schnuerle ported or PDP glow engine at takeoff is just too compelling...Hey, now maybe I'm understanding why some folks like aftermarket, loud exhaust on their boxer? I don't think so.

[bimmer5891]

Weve been selling them for nearly three years. Out of the approximately 200 we've sold I've had to warranty about 15 . Its a similar failure rate to yuasa. The biggest issue we've seen is the need for a specialized charger and the various battery manufacturers calling for the incorrect battery for the bike. The main benefit is the tremendous weight savings which is most beneficial for the guys on the track.

[oalvarez]

I personally know a distributor of li-ion motorcycle batteries.
I have many friends who use them in their motorcycles.
I ride/live in an area that is popular with motorcyclists.
I currently employ Shorai batteries in two of my four bikes.
I yet to hear of a motorcycle catching fire in the area that I ride.

I'm not saying that they can't be improved upon, or are ready for prime time.

[brewmann]

Originally Posted by def

Now as for R/C airplanes? I might give that a try but I still like big glow engines for R/C flying...I guess the sounds of a well adjusted Schnuerle ported or PDP glow engine at takeoff is just too compelling...Hey, now maybe I'm understanding why some folks like aftermarket, loud exhaust on their boxer? I don't think so.

I still fly both...If you can't smell it, it ain't flying...LOL...

[def]

Originally Posted by brewmann

I still fly both...If you can't smell it, it ain't flying...LOL...

Exhaust trails from glow engines...especially those using castor bean oil in the fuel...I love the smell of ricin in the morning.

[Mr Head]

Well, I'll know in about three four weeks how things work.
I am swapping the OEM battery in my 2004 1150 Adventure for an Anti Gravity.

This new battery will be the third battery in 185,000 miles,

I'm blaming the economy for the early demise of my second BMW battery. because of the economy and piss poor management I've spent the last three nearly always on travel. Being away a month at a time then not home for more than a week, then away for months took a toll on the poor little undersized box of magic.
The fat little bastard will get kicked to the curb when the new lighter and fitter model arrives.

[configurationspace]

I have an A123 battery in my HP2. I like it a lot. It's not perfect. It's expensive. But it's super small and extremely light. My first one failed after about 18 months or so. It's not clear what caused the failure, but one of the cells ruptured and the battery couldn't hold a charge after that. As far as I can tell, failures seem to be pretty safe with these batteries.

The new A123 batteries come with load balancers so you can carefully check to see the battery is properly charged cell-by-cell every once and a while. You don't need to check very often because the charging from the alternator seems to be good enough most of the time.

Here's my install thread: http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=687012

[everycredit]

Lithium-ion batteries are not inherently unsafe. If used/charged improperly, they can be.

As a consumer device, they tend to be very forgiving.

One of the first uses of lithium-ion batteries are for medical implants, such as pacemakers and defibrillators. I could find only a handful of cases where some poor patient's chest exploded because of a faulty battery/charger.

[Jim Moore]

I have one in my R1100S. I put it in because one of the battery box posts on the transmission was broken. It is really light. You will think the box is empty when it arrives at the house. It REALLY doesn't like cold weather (40 or below). I've never been stranded but it will barely turn the engine on a cold morning.

[jdbalt]

I have used lithium batteries in RC Helicopters for years. There is definitely a hazard during charging. I charge outside in a lithium charge bag. These batteries are actually not forgiving. They will fail if discharged to far, they can detonate, or burn quite vigorously if overcharged. They can also fail if they have had a hard shock (helicopter crash). I dispose of any pack that has suffered a crash. That was probably a 2000 ish mah battery in the video. So if you have an overcharge situation while riding.... Or say you drop the bike and the battery gets damaged, it might get exciting. Another problem with the overcharging on our bikes is that the battery would not get to expand like the battery in the video because it is jammed in the battery location on our bikes. I have no scientific reasoning for this, but I would be afraid that this would cause a more explosive reaction. Instead of smoking, etc before you knew anything was going wrong. Right next to your gas tank, and other personal vital parts....

Another issue for me personally is the smoke that these batteries is highly toxic. You would want to stand well away from any lithium based fire. The up side is they weigh half as much as lead acid and have roughly five times the capacity density over lead. I'm curious how many of these lithium batteries are on GS bikes. And if there has ever been a melt down.

[TuefelHunden]

Got a 14ah Shorai for my Tiger. That is what they said would work but I had problems with starting. Talked to Shorai and found they had some bad boards in the batch that I got. They sent me a new 18ah at no cost to me. I got my GS and didn't have much of a chance to test it in the Tiger, but the few times I did it was OK. Tried it in my GS and it was stone not good in even cool wearther, like low fifties. Contacted Shorai and they sent me a 21ah battery again at no cost. I tested it down into the 20's (bike is in an unheated garage). No, it does NOT fire up like you would expect from its CCA rating (that number is bogus on Li batteries anyhow). It WILL start the bike if you learn the drill. Hit the starter. The first time it probably won't start. Wait a few seconds. Hit it again and there is a 50 50 change it will fire. Wait a few seconds and it fires. Some folks put a low amp heating blanket around them because they have a very high internal resistance at low temps. They have lots of electrons ready to flow but just need to be warmed up a bit to allow them to flow. There is another trick and that is turn the bike on for a while without starting (lights on is better) and unlike other batteries you don't decrease the probability to start, you actually increase it (unless you had a discharged battery to start with). Shorai has a very good technical section explaining all of this.