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Old 02-06-2009, 08:57 PM   #1
HowlingMad OP
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Pumping Fuel From a GS

One of my winter projects on my 07 R12GSAdv is figuring out how to transfer fuel from the bike without siphoning from the tank. I've run into a few plumbing snags and possible safety snafus and thought maybe some of you could help. The result will be a nice little How To thread for anyone wishing to set themselves on fire in the future.

Purpose:
  • Transfer fuel from the main tank to another bike or portable bottles (for camp stove) using existing fuel circuit.

Intended Method:
  • Intercept return line with diverting valve and extension hose.

Requirements:
  • minimal weight
  • simple design (no complex assortment of fittings, minimal amount of reduction or enlargement in fittings/valves)
  • return to stock - must be able to remove and return to factory state in the field.
  • minimal hassle - using tools to remove panels or other impediments usually results in lack of use.
  • Safe - I develop an unsightly rash when set ablaze, so I'd rather not worry about the design failing and pumping fuel all over the exhaust or me.
  • Cost effective - Think KLR and allow yourself to biggie size it.
  • Inconspicuous - It shouldn't be a big button that screams PUSH HERE.

Questions/Concerns
  • How much pressure is in the return line of the system?
  • Does anyone make a diverter valve like the one below, but with a single valve? (in 3/8 with barbed ends)



Possible Approach A:
  • Use a similar fitting to the one shown above but ideally with one valve, 3/8 barbed fittings and an extension hose.
  • Intercept the return line (on my 07 it's on the right side) with the aforementioned fitting and long extension (4-6')
Possible problems with Approach A:
  • Can't find this ideal fitting
  • not sure if I could reach this valve without removing panel
Possible Approach B
  • Use a T type fitting (seen below) and use a valve to stop the flow of one side of the T while allowing the normal return flow from the other side.

Possible problems with Approach B:
  • Will there be any flow if the indirect part of the T routes to the aux extension hose?
  • Will there be too much pressure/resistance if the return line is routed through the indirect part of the T?
  • I can't find a 3/8 barbed valve.
Possible Approach C:
  • Use Touratech "fuel siphoning hose" (pictured below)


Problems with Approach C:
  • It appears that you must remove the panel before using this, defeating one of the requirements above
Anyone have any ideas? So far I've been to Lowes, Home Depot and a local plumbing supply warehouse, no one knows of the valve mentioned in Solution A.

I posted a thread a while back requesting any help finding an old thread someone did on an 1150, but no luck.

I'll update the list above with any viable ideas.


P.S. Thanks in advance for your concern for my safety, you are hereby fully released from any liability from this project. Alrightythen?

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Old 02-07-2009, 04:27 AM   #2
space
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The thread you're thinking of was indeed for the 1150:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85673

I strongly suspect that this is the best way to do it for the 12 as well. Since siphoning fuel is (hopefully) a rare occurrence, the burden of having to remove one of the side panels seems minimal.

But if you really, really, really don't want to remove the panels, you could get a portable siphon, such as this one:

http://www.aerostich.com/catalog/US/...n-p-20286.html

This option has the added benefit of being able to transfer gas TO your bike. Even still, I'd go with your option C. Although I'd buy the QD and hose myself rather than pay whatever TT is charging.
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Old 02-07-2009, 04:43 AM   #3
AntonLargiader
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You can just buy a QD fitting to plug into the return line and then run a hose to the other bike, right? It would pump whenever you had the engine running. Pretty simple tool; just one hose (with a fitting) and nothing permanently installed on the bike.

Or you could use a jumper to power the pump so you didn't have to run the motor, but that would be harder to use.
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Old 02-07-2009, 04:46 AM   #4
karlb
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not sure what you have against siphoning the fuel, I got one of these off fleabay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SIPHO...motiveQ5fTools
and they work slick, stick it in the tank, shake it up and down to get the fuel flowing and the tank will empty in about 2 mins, light, simple, compact for packing,cheap, and transferable from bike to bike, what else do you need?
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Old 02-07-2009, 05:59 AM   #5
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Do you have fuel line disconnects fitted?, if you do then why not just buy half of a connector to fit the ones on the bike, add a length of hose and when you need fuel just disconnect the return line and connect your apparatus, ignition on and there she flows.

Stewart
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Old 02-07-2009, 06:09 AM   #6
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I use the TT hose. I've used it to empty the tank before removing it for maintenance and it worked great. It will pump out the entire contents. I carry it with me for emergency supply to another rider and consider the removal of two screws on the side panel not big deal.
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Old 02-07-2009, 06:39 AM   #7
HowlingMad OP
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Thanks for all the input so far.

I should have explained the purpose a little better. This summer my wife and I did a two month trip. Living off the bike day to day pushes one to get a system down for the daily routine. One routine I hated was filling the little MSR bottles at the gas pump. The pumps typically have too much pressure and put more fuel on the ground than in the bottle. Some states like Connecticut have the vapor recovery nozzles which are a pain. We used the stove so much that this was something we dealt with almost every day. I'd rather fill the tank on the GS and then pump fuel into the little MSR bottles.

In addition, my wife's GS has about a 225 mile range and there were places that it would be nice to know that if she ran out of fuel it wouldn't be dramatic.

As for the quick disconnects method, it will work well for my 1150 (thanks for the link Space, that was what I was looking for) but on the R12GS it would require removing the panel which requires digging out a T25 each time.
One of the two screws is buried and requires an extension to remove. (note the panel with the logo must be removed)


If I must do it this way I will, but I'll bet we can come up with something better.

Thanks again, and keep the ideas rolling.
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Old 02-07-2009, 09:51 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HowlingMad
One of my winter projects on my 07 R12GSAdv is figuring out how to transfer fuel from the bike without siphoning from the tank. I've run into a few plumbing snags and possible safety snafus and thought maybe some of you could help. The result will be a nice little How To thread for anyone wishing to set themselves on fire in the future.
I have been thinking about the same thing for the exact same reason. On my R100GSPD it was simple, I kept 3 ft of gas line stored in the frame backbone and when I needed to fill my stove bottle I just pulled out the line, disconnected the carb line from the petcock, attached the spare line and filled the bottle.
With my new '08 GSA it's not as simple.
Here is what I am thinking of:
A male and female disconnect inserted in the return line,
A male disconnect attached to a length of gas line,
When a bottle fill is needed you reach in and uncouple the disconnects and connect the length of gas line.
Possible issues
One more disconnect to fail (this would be minimal with good quality disconnects).
It's a little bit cramped working in that area so it is possible to stress the existing (plastic) connection points.
OR
Insert "T" into existing return line,
Run a length of gas line from the "T" to a convenient place near the lower edge of the tank side cover,
Put a female disconnect on the end of the hose (you will need the kind that seals itself when not mated) don't cheap out with this fitting,
When a bottle fill is needed plug your extension line into the disconnect.
Possible issues
Filling will be slower because the fuel will be split between the two lines depending on the restrictions in each line,
If the seal on the disconnect fails then you pump gas down that side of the motorcycle which would be a "bad thing".

Have all the parts but I'm still debating, will decide in the spring.
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Old 02-07-2009, 01:38 PM   #9
karlb
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I still go back to an 8.00 siphon hose that you dont have to suck or blow on , cheap, easy, quick compact, low tech, works even if your bike is dead, what more do ya need?
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Old 02-07-2009, 03:28 PM   #10
HowlingMad OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paladinwest
...
Here is what I am thinking of:
A male and female disconnect inserted in the return line,
A male disconnect attached to a length of gas line,
When a bottle fill is needed you reach in and uncouple the disconnects and connect the length of gas line.
Possible issues
One more disconnect to fail (this would be minimal with good quality disconnects).
It's a little bit cramped working in that area so it is possible to stress the existing (plastic) connection points.
OR
Insert "T" into existing return line,
Run a length of gas line from the "T" to a convenient place near the lower edge of the tank side cover,
Put a female disconnect on the end of the hose (you will need the kind that seals itself when not mated) don't cheap out with this fitting,
When a bottle fill is needed plug your extension line into the disconnect.
Possible issues
Filling will be slower because the fuel will be split between the two lines depending on the restrictions in each line,
If the seal on the disconnect fails then you pump gas down that side of the motorcycle which would be a "bad thing".
Some interesting ideas. I never thought of using the quick disconnects as a stop off the T in lieu of a valve. My only issue (besides the vulnerability) is that each set of these seems to be about $100. Seems a little spendy for such a silly item. My other issue with those things is protecting them, like air fittings on a rough service vehicle.

Do you think there would be enough pressure coming out of the T?

Karlb - Thanks for the link, I actually forgot to click on it originally. Your idea is definitely the most simple, and not a bad thing to have in addition, but my first choice is still the hard plumbed line that I simply turn a valve and fuel comes out.
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Old 02-07-2009, 03:56 PM   #11
space
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HowlingMad
My only issue (besides the vulnerability) is that each set of these seems to be about $100.
$40 here: http://www.beemerboneyard.com/cpcqkdiscon1.html

The T on the return line w/ QD sounds like the way to go if you want to avoid taking off the panels and want an integrated solution. You won't even need to run the bike to dispense gas, since it will flow out of the return line due to gravity alone.
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Old 02-12-2009, 09:43 PM   #12
paladinwest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HowlingMad
Some interesting ideas. I never thought of using the quick disconnects as a stop off the T in lieu of a valve. My only issue (besides the vulnerability) is that each set of these seems to be about $100. Seems a little spendy for such a silly item. My other issue with those things is protecting them, like air fittings on a rough service vehicle.

Do you think there would be enough pressure coming out of the T?
I bought a set of these at the rally in Gillette for about $35, look like really good quality anodized aluminum parts. As far as protecting them, I thought that I would put a rubber plug/cover used to seal off vacuum lines on cars. I'm not 100% sure on the pressure but I would think that there should be enough to fill a fuel bottle in a reasonable time. It probably wouldn't be the fastest way to move two or three gallons.
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Old 02-13-2009, 08:01 AM   #13
TexasMule
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilybimmer
Do you have fuel line disconnects fitted?, if you do then why not just buy half of a connector to fit the ones on the bike, add a length of hose and when you need fuel just disconnect the return line and connect your apparatus, ignition on and there she flows.

Stewart
+1 What Stew said (and Anton). That's exactly what I have on my Pig. Half a QD with a length of hose, just enough to reach a fuel container.
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Old 02-13-2009, 05:42 PM   #14
paladinwest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasMule
+1 What Stew said (and Anton). That's exactly what I have on my Pig. Half a QD with a length of hose, just enough to reach a fuel container.
That certainly will work and Touratech sells a kit to do just that. However on an R1200 the connectors are awkward to get at without removing body panels and the potential for breaking one accidently is higher than I want. Should you break that disconnect or pinch the o-ring you are stuck until it can be fixed. If the one on the T breaks I can seal it off with a bolt and a hose clamp and fix it later.
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Old 02-13-2009, 06:04 PM   #15
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HowlingMad,

Have you considered purchasing one of these http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1∂=WMR-W1145&N=700+115&autoview=sku for $10.95? I know it's not as challenging as what you are proposing, but they work pretty darn good at doing what you want, move fluids. I think there are even extra hoses to convert to tire inflator.
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