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Old 01-31-2013, 06:53 AM   #16
Rucksta
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Don't know how TAG cope with the swingarm gap with the forward engine move.

RT.

Very interested in what you are posting re TAG.
I never could get much out of them and gave up a few years ago.

5-10 mm is not a lot; a spacer on the gearbox output flange will cope OK.
Finding suitable bolts and bolt insertion clearance is a minor issue.

The pictured bike with parlever rear seems to have more than a 10mm forward move.
More like 20mm judging by the position of the exhaust nut in relation to the frame tube.
Photos can be deceptive .

Longer swingarms have the effect of moving the CoG forward as the back wheel moves away from the engine mass
Making the rake steeper doubles up as the front wheel moves towards the engine.
Given the same length fork tubes it also jacks up the front end in comparison to the rear which seems to be the original problem that you want to overcome

Surely it is easier to engineer the forks for the corrrect ride hight for the amount of swing arm extension than it is to re position every thing else.
Some reduction in total wheel travel will result.
My experience is that anything over 250mm becomes a handfull with weight transfer.

Moving the CoG forward certainly helps make the front end feel more planted.
How much is enough?
Since you are in country do they have a demo bike you can ride?

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Old 01-31-2013, 10:26 PM   #17
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Did you get any other pics while you were there ? The pic of the bike with the 19l tank looks interesting, around the steering head area and the bar clamps and I would love a pic of the rear shock mount, (if that one has the 1100 rear end )
They do some very nice stuff, your bike will be awesome when done !!
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Old 02-01-2013, 02:40 AM   #18
Ras Thurlo OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rucksta View Post
RT.

Very interested in what you are posting re TAG.

Longer swingarms have the effect of moving the CoG forward as the back wheel moves away from the engine mass
Making the rake steeper doubles up as the front wheel moves towards the engine.
Given the same length fork tubes it also jacks up the front end in comparison to the rear which seems to be the original problem that you want to overcome

Surely it is easier to engineer the forks for the corrrect ride hight for the amount of swing arm extension than it is to re position every thing else.
Some reduction in total wheel travel will result.
My experience is that anything over 250mm becomes a handfull with weight transfer.
.

You guys are getting this real-time, so not everything is understood/figured out. Rucksta, I think your comments are basically right.

One of the primary drivers behind the engine move and consequent rebalancing of the CoG is to lighten the rear so as to allow for a free-er rear suspension travel.

The genesis of the TAG mods were primarily for rally preps, rather than overland tourism- hence the focus on max suspension travel.

Given that I will be putting an extended monolever on the bike, they have advised against the engine move. Effectively stating that the subtlety of the effect on the rear suspension will be lost due to the stiffening effect of the shaft jacking.

This is why their preps are largely done with R1100 paralevers, which they modify significantly (pics to come). I am now questioning my logic for having chosen monolever in the first place, at the time rear wheel offset of the R1100 paralever put me off and the hope that the extension on the mono would almost cancel out the jacking effect.

I agree that changes in rake will marginally add to the chopper effect, but am assuming that the effect on handling materially outweighs this. I also agree that playing with fork slide is still something you want to do at the end of the day, but am not at that stage yet. Cant comment on the ideal suspension travel, again because I am not there yet. I would have thought that much of this is ultimately subjective, depending on rider height and typical riding terrain.

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Old 02-01-2013, 05:58 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Ras Thurlo View Post
TAG's make their swing arms specifically to deal with this issue, I assume by being +105-110mm. My issue is that I have a shiny new +100mm mono from Moorespeed that I got before focusing on the frame.
What are/were the prices of the two swingarms?
Have you a link to the TAG Moto website please.....

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Old 02-01-2013, 06:05 AM   #20
Ras Thurlo OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timpo View Post
What are/were the prices of the two swingarms?
Have you a link to the TAG Moto website please.....
no website (its Italy after all) - for most of us here computers still run on diesel

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Old 02-01-2013, 06:55 AM   #21
Clay Spinner
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What are/were the prices of the two swingarms?

Timpo.
You can find Richie's HERE
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Old 02-01-2013, 06:58 AM   #22
Rucksta
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Ras

I can confirm the extended monolevers reduce but not eliminate shaft jacking.
It's a leverage thing.
Shaft jacking can be further controlled via suspension - zero or low preload and dial up the low speed rebound circut.
If find controlled shaft jacking useful but maybe I'm just used to it.

Love the diesel powered computer they must be usefull for sending smoke signals
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Old 02-02-2013, 03:48 PM   #23
Ras Thurlo OP
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TAG paralever

[IMG] photo tagrallyfaraoni007_zps56cb05c1.jpeg[/IMG]

 photo forcellonetagpara1_zpsf658e909.jpeg

 photo forcellonetagpara2_zpscfe4c5df.jpeg
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Old 02-03-2013, 05:37 AM   #24
Timpo
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Originally Posted by Clay Spinner View Post
You can find Richie's HERE

But what is the price of the TAG Moto cast alloy airhead swinger?
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Old 02-03-2013, 05:48 AM   #25
Ras Thurlo OP
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But what is the price of the TAG Moto cast alloy airhead swinger?
approx EUR 800

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Old 02-03-2013, 09:13 PM   #26
Phreaky Phil
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[IMG][/IMG]



That is awesome. Is the whole swingarm a TAG casting or a modified BMW one ?
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Old 02-04-2013, 02:04 AM   #27
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Wow! I like that a lot. I'm assuming they value the longer shock, rather than the direction HPN takes with the 11xx swing arms?
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Old 02-04-2013, 06:26 AM   #28
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I love looking at this stuff, and the two things I'm curious about are:
- did TAG strengthen the swing arm? The stock one isn't designed for load at that point
- what is the wheel offset on that rolling chassis?
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Old 02-04-2013, 07:35 AM   #29
Ras Thurlo OP
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From what I have understood so far:

- its a modified 1100 SA

- yes its strengthened post alterations, they also mentioned this was a necessary step

- Net offset (after wheel offset in compensation) 15-17mm, do not know what the gross offset of the SA alone is.

If this is correct I do not think that sub 2cm offset is that bad considering that I see this as the principal drawback of going for a 1100 para.

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Old 02-04-2013, 01:33 PM   #30
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TAG's work and parts looks to be of high quality and very well engineered. If they had a website with contact information, product details etc. they might have a lot more customers. I for one am very willing to look further into their solutions. But like HPN and other of these small airhead niche businesses they might just wan't to their focus on smaller scale which I totally understand and respect.
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