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Old 02-02-2013, 06:22 AM   #46
def
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Originally Posted by madpuma13 View Post
The 1150 gs headlight is round that's it.
You are misinformed. Next time you're in front of a 1150GS with the asymmetric headlights, peek closely into the low beam headlight lens and observe the round projector optics and the silver metal cutoff mask. That is a projector headlight design behind a flat fluted glass headlight lens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:He..._schematic.png

The smaller high beam is a parabolic design.

def screwed with this post 02-02-2013 at 06:28 AM
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Old 02-03-2013, 06:41 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by madpuma13 View Post
Misinformation at work. These headlights were not designed for hids. Just because they are round is mere coincidence but are still designed for halogen lights that have an output of light much lower than hids provide.

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HID low beam on my 2001 GS was miserable. Light scatter was horrible and adjusting my headlamp several times over only reduced the number of times I was flashed by passing drivers and it was aimed lower than original.

Maybe if someone made a nice reflector for this purpose I would try it again, but since LED headlamps are on the way I'll hold off. I agree the stock BMW headlamp needs help. I traded my HID assembly away (back when they were costly) for a good burger and a crate of ale.

For the record, the new water-cooled GS comes with LED headlamps-- haven't you been reading?

http://www.webbikeworld.com/BMW-moto...3-bmw-r1200gs/

LED Headlight
The 2013 BMW R1200GS is the first motorcycle in the world with LED main headlight including integrated daytime running light for even greater safety when riding during the day and at night as an ex works option.
Even in its standard trim, the new R 1200 GS has a main headlight with optimized light efficiency. In order to be seen even better during the day, BMW Motorrad also offers a daytime running light as a factory option. For excellent road illumination and therefore even greater safety both day and night, an LED main headlight with integrated daytime running light is fitted in a motorcycle for the first time ever. It comprises innovative LED technology with a sophisticated cooling and de-condensation concept.
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Old 02-03-2013, 07:09 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by BobbySands View Post

For the record, the new water-cooled GS comes with LED headlamps-- haven't you been reading?

http://www.webbikeworld.com/BMW-moto...3-bmw-r1200gs/

LED Headlight
The 2013 BMW R1200GS is the first motorcycle in the world with LED main headlight including integrated daytime running light for even greater safety when riding during the day and at night as an ex works option.
Even in its standard trim, the new R 1200 GS has a main headlight with optimized light efficiency. In order to be seen even better during the day, BMW Motorrad also offers a daytime running light as a factory option. For excellent road illumination and therefore even greater safety both day and night, an LED main headlight with integrated daytime running light is fitted in a motorcycle for the first time ever. It comprises innovative LED technology with a sophisticated cooling and de-condensation concept.
That article is confusing and misleading. If you scroll down to the bottom it states the day time running lights use LED technology but the main headlamp is an improved halogen bulb. It looks like you can get it in an options package.

Edited: Here's from the BMW Motorrad Site:

SEE AND BE SEEN.

Already fitted as standard with the halogen main headlamp, the new R 1200 GS presents innovative lighting technology. Whether for riding light or high beam, the main headlamp has undergone exhaustive tests in the light tunnel for ensured, better visibility both on the road and off.

This halogen main headlamp is supplemented by the optional daytime running light. During the day the lamp is activated either automatically via a light sensor or manually as a substitute for the main headlamp. The R 1200 GS is therefore perceived with considerably greater distinction than other vehicles.

BMW Motorrad is the only manufacturer in the world to fit, on request, an LED main headlamp with integrated daytime running light on its new R 1200 GS. This module made up of four extremely clear LEDs each for riding light and high beam provides reliable illumination over every route.

Moreover, the new R 1200 GS features a new, transparent tail lamp design with red bars, for greater elegance and far better visibility of the rear.
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Old 02-03-2013, 07:53 AM   #49
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yes that is confusing.bmw states they have the first led headlight at the beginning of the press release.then at the end of the article say the standard light is an improved halogen with led daytime running lights.maybe the led headlight is an option.if it is could you retro fit it on an older gs and the cost could be an issue.
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:07 PM   #50
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If you all haven't noticed by now, all of this literature is written in German first and translated directly by people who don't actually check whether it makes any sense . Another thing BMW does not do is show much detail in their specs. From not showing dimensions to electrical specs, they are brutal. Go try to buy BMW aux led lights for a GSA and try to find how many led's are in it, or watts , or lumens. Or what your bike will need to install them. It's laughable. They are great at showing the price though.
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:49 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by madpuma13 View Post
There is no properly done hid conversion in a halogen headlight. Doesn't matter how you aim a converted headlight. Halogens were designed to reflect a certain amount of light upward for traffic and highway sign reflection, but not so much that it blinds traffic.

Putting hids in a halogen housing and trying to aim it doesn't fix the problem as that is the way halogens are made to be. They are designed to work with the limited amount of light that is there. The excess light from hids creates glare and can be binding to incoming traffic as well as those directly in front of you.

As I said before everyone overlooks the fact that it hurts everyone else on the road if you do this because from your own perspective all you can see are the positives. More light in front of you, less energy being taxed on your bike, less money to have them installed.

There is a reason why they don't come from the factory with hids installed.

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Nope sorry that's just plain wrong, there are plenty of projector lens incandescent filament units that adapt very well with an HID burner in place with minimal adjustment required as on the 1150GS dipped beam. The normal issue with HID burners in a reflector housing is that they tend to have a different focal point for the light source as they were designed for a given filament bulb config and very often the standard filament bulb will have a shield(s) to help with the light throw. Vehicle HID's were designed for projector lens which have an internal shield in place which gives that clean sharp cut off. The other big problem is people very often buy very poor quality burners ( often at high prices ) that are either rebased or just crappily manufactured and with these you are on to a loser before you even start. These also tend to be the units that cause issues with the reflector coating looking as if it has been burnt as they have either no or insufficient UV coating on the burner.

The reflection of light upwards as you put it is not a function on the fact it is a Halogen headlight as you call it, it is caused by either the beam pattern on the glass on older headlights or the reflector design inside newer clear lens ones. I would say that older purely lens beam pattern headlights are not suited to HID burners. It is possible to also achieve a good beam pattern in a clear lens reflector housing but this requires careful and accurate placement of the burner focal point and shield cover to avoid the issue of scatter.

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Old 02-04-2013, 01:13 PM   #52
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Yes, the majority of what I said applies to halogen reflector housing setups. To the other man that called me out on the 1150gs headlight being a projector setup, I am apparently wrong on that and acknowledge said wrongness.

You indeed can get much better results from a halogen designed projector than a halogen designed reflector.

But I still reiterate for those of us that do not have projector style headlights you can NOT aim the hid light in a reflector styled housing that was designed for halogens to get results like projector style setups. Not without heavy modification. Which is not what everyone is willing to do. They want a plug and play solution and adding hid bulbs to reflector headlights not designed for it hurts those around you.

There are hid designed reflector housings that do create sharp cutoffs without a lot of light scatter do it is not solely about the bulb. The fact is that the halogen headlight housing, unmodified WILL create excess scatter that can blind others around you.


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Old 02-04-2013, 01:14 PM   #53
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Actually he is exactly right. That's kind of why retrofitting a halogen headlamp with an HID bulb is banned and against the law in most places. I have a 50 watt HID in my GSA low beam and the scatter on signs and objects on the side of the bike is 10 fold what the halogen bulb was. . It may annoy traffic but at least they know I'm there. I've nearly been run over several times so eff them . The reflector on the bike or car is either made for HID or it's not. End of story.
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:45 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by GP1200 View Post
I have a 50 watt HID in my GSA low beam and the scatter on signs and objects on the side of the bike is 10 fold what the halogen bulb was. . It may annoy traffic but at least they know I'm there. I've nearly been run over several times so eff them.
The closest call I've had was when I was on the 650 Dakar with the sun at my back on a two lane hwy. A car coming in the opposite direction proceeded to pass someone else moving into my lane - heading in my direction going 65 mph - and I had to cross the fog line (white line) otherwise I would have been a BIG bug splatter. I could have slapped her side mirrors when she went by. It all happened in about 3 seconds. If I had been gawking and looking around and not paying attention in that 3 second span - it would have been - really bad. Very Humbling.

Since I have the HID's on the 1200 - I haven't had that issue. Yet. Knock on wood.

Visibility is a very big plus as far as safety is concerned. Let there be more lights. Yep - I'm going to add more... and don't forget about the flashing brake light too!
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Old 02-04-2013, 04:36 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by madpuma13 View Post
Yes, the majority of what I said applies to halogen reflector housing setups. To the other man that called me out on the 1150gs headlight being a projector setup, I am apparently wrong on that and acknowledge said wrongness.
madpuma,

Your GS is not equipped with a projector style headlamp and may have been the source of your error. My '01 GS has the two, round asymmetric headlamps, the low beam being the projector. Most who choose to install HIDs do so only in the low beam thereby retaining the flash-to-pass option for the high beam.

And while not street legal, a properly fitted H1 HID works well in this low beam application, provides almost 2X the lumens, does not scatter light like a shotgun but instead, closely emulates the beam pattern achieved with the approved incandescent H1 lamp while conserving about 15 watts of power...not a bad trade off. But, the headlight must be carefully adjusted after such an installation.

Finally, choosing an HID lamp color not exceeding 5000K only enhances the HID performance in this headlight assembly.
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:58 AM   #56
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I installed a 35W 4300k HID low beam on my 05 1200GS.
I had to adjust the light down quite a bit to prevent blinding oncoming traffic which made my brights useless, the light was also so scattered that it was everywhere, not necessarily bright, just everywhere, I tried to like the arrangement (cause I'd done it to myself) and drove with it for a few weeks but never fell in love.
I decided to try a good Halogen bulb so I bought a Sylvania SilverStar Ultra H7 and replaced the Low Beam HID, It works so much better than the HID I would never go back, nice uniform white light out front, you can certainly tell that a Halogen bulb is what the headlight reflector assembly on this bike was designed to use (regardless of the law),
I had to order a new headlight cover because I drilled a 1" hole in the original, for me it was about a $40 dollar lesson learned, I've spent way more and learned lots less in my days.

One thing I won't argue about is how others may like their HID setups or the legalities of it all.

If you have some dough burning a hole in your pocket and you want to spend it on lighting I would recommend the Weiser LED turn signal inserts, a quality LED tail/brake light and a good pair of auxiliary driving lights like PIAA's.

I've been monkeying around with an LED tail/brake light setup and have some questions, so I'm going to start a new thread about that.
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Old 02-05-2013, 01:31 PM   #57
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I know this thread has gotten off topic, but for those of you that do not have the option of converting to HID (yes madpuma, I know it's illegal, irritating and hurtful to other motorists, etc.), has anyone tried rewiring your existing halogen lighting fixture directly to the battery via a relay? There is a valid argument made that the factory wiring setups lose a lot of power from source to bulb in all the small gauge wire and switches it has to pass through to get there.

It's not difficult and reasonably inexpensive: $3.50 for a relay, maybe $10 in wire, connectors and shrink tube. I'd be interested to hear from one of you 12GS guys if there was a noticeable difference. If I hadn't already converted my 1150GS to HIDs (yes, madpuma; I know it's illegal!) I'd try it on mine. Anything would be an improvement over the stock headlights on the 1150!

If it is brighter, an additional benefit would be the use of the type of bulb intended for the reflector.This solution should even make madpuma happy!

Cheers!
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:14 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by ElMartillo View Post
I know this thread has gotten off topic, but for those of you that do not have the option of converting to HID (yes madpuma, I know it's illegal, irritating and hurtful to other motorists, etc.), has anyone tried rewiring your existing halogen lighting fixture directly to the battery via a relay? There is a valid argument made that the factory wiring setups lose a lot of power from source to bulb in all the small gauge wire and switches it has to pass through to get there.

It's not difficult and reasonably inexpensive: $3.50 for a relay, maybe $10 in wire, connectors and shrink tube. I'd be interested to hear from one of you 12GS guys if there was a noticeable difference. If I hadn't already converted my 1150GS to HIDs (yes, madpuma; I know it's illegal!) I'd try it on mine. Anything would be an improvement over the stock headlights on the 1150!

If it is brighter, an additional benefit would be the use of the type of bulb intended for the reflector.This solution should even make madpuma happy!

Cheers!
I recall this was covered in a post many months ago. And, the results were positive in that the relay mod did improve the voltage to the bulb and therefore did improve light output somewhat.

I would do it for preservation of the ignition switch contacts and other parts of the headlight wiring alone.

I'm still a fan of HID conversion in the projector low beam on older GSes. Yup, it is illegal.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:38 PM   #59
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I'm still a fan of HID conversion in the projector low beam on older GSes. Yup, it is illegal.
It is, and I know there are times when it's irritating to other drivers, but then again, I've had everything from factory Audis and BMWs behind me with factory HIDs that annoyed the shit out of me as well.

Anyway, it's also the first time the headlights on the 1150 have been anything more than a legal requirement. I can actually somewhat see at night now. A set of Clearwaters will probably be going on at some point, as I'm still not lighting up those backroads well enough.

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Old 02-06-2013, 06:22 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by spagthorpe View Post
It is, and I know there are times when it's irritating to other drivers, but then again, I've had everything from factory Audis and BMWs behind me with factory HIDs that annoyed the shit out of me as well.

Anyway, it's also the first time the headlights on the 1150 have been anything more than a legal requirement. I can actually somewhat see at night now. A set of Clearwaters will probably be going on at some point, as I'm still not lighting up those backroads well enough.
Properly aimed OE HIDs on vehicles do produce some light scatter that can be annoying. In Europe, HID equipped autos are required to have headlight cleaning systems. A dirty headlight lens will produce HID light scatter, hence the requirement. Also, many HID systems have motors which keep the HID aimed in the direction of travel.

Finally, many of the cheap Chinese HID kits contain lamps which are assembled and glued into a composite base with little attention given to the dimensions and lamp alignment. Therefore, once we install them in our headlamps, the light is impossible to adjust to eliminate the scatter so annoying to oncoming drivers.

Years ago, I imported some HID kits from India. The build quality was much higher than the Chinese kits but, my prices were not competitive with the Chinese stuff. Also, the lamps were assembled using a fixture to insure proper alignment of the arc chamber with the base so that the focal point of the lamp kernel was optimized. These HIDs produced almost no forward light scatter.

If your HIDs produce annoying forward light scatter, you may have a lamp alignment issue. Also, keep the headlamp lens clean to reduce scatter.

Oh yes, and HIDs not DOT approved are not street illegal.
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