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Old 02-03-2013, 12:37 PM   #16
levain
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The thing no one has mentioned is that it's difficult to control a phone with a gloved hand.

I want a phone that is "ruggedized" as mentioned above, works with a gloved hand, easily mountable, able to upload GPX and I'll switch. The technology just isn't there yet, but I bet it will be in a year or two. Garmin better have something in the works, cos they're gonna be toast soon.
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Old 02-03-2013, 01:50 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by levain View Post
The thing no one has mentioned is that it's difficult to control a phone with a gloved hand.

I want a phone that is "ruggedized" as mentioned above, works with a gloved hand, easily mountable, able to upload GPX and I'll switch. The technology just isn't there yet, but I bet it will be in a year or two. Garmin better have something in the works, cos they're gonna be toast soon.
I mentioned it in my post. The smartphone screens are not designed to work on pressure sensitivity. They've gotten away from that to provide more precision and accuracy. The drawback is gloves....they simply don't work on a smartphone screen.

I think the pressure sensitivity is much better on my BMW Zumo than on my 6 year old Garmin Nuvi. I'm sure they've made improvements, but how much better can a pressure driven system be?

As I pointed out, the Zumo has a specific glove "mode" or setting to enter letters and numbers. It's a wider, taller button than the normal QWERTY setup and makes typing a little easier/quicker with gloves.
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Old 02-03-2013, 02:06 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by kiwi_outdoors View Post
how do you transfer the places between PC at home and the phone?
For this you need a data plan (or WiFi). It is automatic. Use the same login on your phone as you use on you PC. Your points and tracks are in both places automatically. And you can actually share the data between users if you wish. So you can plan a group ride and share with others if they have a Google login.

And my wife can check Google Latitude at any time to see where I am when I'm riding so she can have super treaty for me when I get home as all good wives are required to do. Free spot like feature.

And latitude keeps a history online. Great to l look back on where you rode last summer from any PC.
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Old 02-03-2013, 04:49 PM   #19
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RoyQ and I were discussing this the other day (we both have Garmins) and the conclusion we came to is its time google just built a GPS.
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Old 02-03-2013, 07:15 PM   #20
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I'll chime in once more...

....I have a Zumo 550 with the XM Sat Radio on an RKA "In-Charge" tank bag.

I get wireless, bluetooth, stereo XM radio, MP3s, and GPS prompts into my helmet, and can voice dial and receive cell phone calls.

The GPS and XM radio are water proof. I can reach up and touch the unit and control it. I can see it in all weather, day or night. My cell phone is inside the tank bag and is powered via a power point in the tank bag. The bluetooth headset in the helmet has a 14 hour life between charges and can be hot swapped.

I can ride for 14 hours and have all of this for the entire ride without battery failure. I can listen to Classic Vinyl, hear "turn left on Woodward Ave. in 100 feet", then answer or make a phone call, all with zero wires.

I can call a hotel on my route and book a room in a strange town.

I can have twenty loop routes for day rides ready to go anytime.

I can make FRS radio calls to other riders, use a CB radio, all wirelessly.

No extra cases needed.

The whole thing, since it is all contained in the tank bag, can be instantly removed from the bike and carried inside a hotel, restaurant, or moved to another motorcycle. I can take it with me and rent a bike and plop it on and have all of this functionality on ANY motorcycle, anywhere.

I can mount it on my V-Strom on Monday, my Monster on Tuesday, and my RC51 on Tuesday night.

Having a dedicated system like this makes it super convenient and easy.

I am also not stuck with any one type of cell phone. I can use the cheapest or most wiz-bang cell phone out there, as long as it has bluetooth. I can rock an old school Blackberry or a Samsung Galaxy Note 37b.

That's why I use a Garmin.

YMMV.
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Old 02-03-2013, 10:14 PM   #21
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I just opened the Equipment sub forum and was about to ask the exact same question with a bit of a different twist. Sorry if this is hijacking...

I'm a technotard and just got my first ever smart phone - Samsung Rugby Smart. I've used GPS though since it first came out though I haven't kept up with them... I was noticing how easy it was to read the google maps on the Rugby and was wondering what the point of my Garmin 62s was. Here's what I've found in the past few days; I'm wondering if there are simple solutions to the issues.


- 62s is far faster at keeping up with me as I move.
- 62s gets a signal better.
- Rugby doesn't work at all where I need it most - in the jungle. It only works where I have cell coverage.
- - - I'm guessing this has 2 causes; First I don't know how to use it as a gps without cell phone coverage.
- - -Secondly very few GPS get signals in the jungle because of the canopy density. Before the SIRF antennae in the 60 series I'd only get a signal 10% of the time; with SIRF I get it 80% of the time - enough that if I'm lost I can look for a lense dense spot and be fairly confident I'll get a reading.
So my big question here is, is there an external antennae that can plug into the micro USB or that is BT that would make it work as good or maybe even better than the Garmin 62?
- Finally though neither is waterproof (Yes I know what the advertising says) the 62 is much more rugged than the rugby. (BTW the 60 is much more waterproof than the 62. I had to replace the 62 for water damage after less than 1/10 the abuse the 60 got!)

Of course that doesn't matter if you don't ride in the rain and in fair conditions in civilization I certainly like how big the screen and how nice everything looks on the rugby compared to the Garmin.
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Old 02-04-2013, 06:32 AM   #22
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I tried the smartphone thing and it didn't work for me...screen was too small and had bad glare in the daylight. Couldn't operate it with gloves on. Needed to be plugged in all the time because the Nav apps chew the battery up. Heated up so bad I was afraid the phone would be damaged. This was with an HTC Incredible. I have since changed to a Samsung Galaxy S3 but I still prefer my Montana for Navigation.

One other reason and this may not be a concern for others but When I ride I keep my phone on my person....if I had a bad get-off I don't want the phone on the bike where I may not be able to get it if I need to call for help.
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:42 AM   #23
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personal preference = smartphone

I personally love using my smartphone for GPS/navigation. I listen to music through earbuds while I ride, and the Navigation app will pause my music (Winamp), tell me where/when to turn in a sexy British female voice, and then automatically resume my music. So far, I haven't had any problems, but I'm primarily using just in larger cities where I can't easily just ride through town and find my destination.

I haven't used my Garmin GPS at all. Then again, I'm not going off-road where cellular service might be an issue. YMMV.

For me, this is the best/easiest option. Not ideal for everyone.
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:48 AM   #24
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I use an Atrix with a Gps app. No data. Super fast. Super bright. Has a cradle.......it was free so not worried so much about water and has not been a problem yet
useing it with gloves did not work until I put conductive thread in the fingers becuase guess what I wanted to use my phone as well as my Atrix.
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:33 AM   #25
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yo

Ok so I'm new to this,and cheap as hell,I have a android,a ancient GPS(just shows Latitude and Longitude),and paper maps(the last 2 always go well with a gen1 KLR)at the moment this works well,I do have to stop often and ask for human updates(good chance to meet women in remote places)the guys with GPS often give me that same look you get when you ask someone what time it is, if I was in a hurry and wanted to know where I was going I would drive a cage and stay on the freeway.I'm probably over in the corner eating candy and babbling about what kinda oil I should use.Sarcasm and Irony always near,can't seem to out run um!
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8lives screwed with this post 02-04-2013 at 10:51 AM Reason: fix spelling,eliminate words
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:55 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickypanecatyl View Post
I just opened the Equipment sub forum and was about to ask the exact same question with a bit of a different twist. Sorry if this is hijacking...

I'm a technotard and just got my first ever smart phone - Samsung Rugby Smart. I've used GPS though since it first came out though I haven't kept up with them... I was noticing how easy it was to read the google maps on the Rugby and was wondering what the point of my Garmin 62s was. Here's what I've found in the past few days; I'm wondering if there are simple solutions to the issues.


- 62s is far faster at keeping up with me as I move.
- 62s gets a signal better.
- Rugby doesn't work at all where I need it most - in the jungle. It only works where I have cell coverage.
- - - I'm guessing this has 2 causes; First I don't know how to use it as a gps without cell phone coverage.
- - -Secondly very few GPS get signals in the jungle because of the canopy density. Before the SIRF antennae in the 60 series I'd only get a signal 10% of the time; with SIRF I get it 80% of the time - enough that if I'm lost I can look for a lense dense spot and be fairly confident I'll get a reading.
So my big question here is, is there an external antennae that can plug into the micro USB or that is BT that would make it work as good or maybe even better than the Garmin 62?
- Finally though neither is waterproof (Yes I know what the advertising says) the 62 is much more rugged than the rugby. (BTW the 60 is much more waterproof than the 62. I had to replace the 62 for water damage after less than 1/10 the abuse the 60 got!)

Of course that doesn't matter if you don't ride in the rain and in fair conditions in civilization I certainly like how big the screen and how nice everything looks on the rugby compared to the Garmin.
there are a ton of bluetooth gps receivers out there: here is a link to some on amazon: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss...re%2Caps%2C400'

i used the global sat 359 before phones had built in gps and it worked like a charm.
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:41 PM   #27
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I received a dedicated GPS unit ~ 15 years ago (quite a monster) and used it for a few years, but later I got a Windows Mobile phone with iGO and now I use Android with OSMand.

How it goes: I set the destination and put the phone in the pocket. I also have 3 batteries, so power is not a problem, I hear the navigation instructions in the BT headset (SMH10) and listen to music in the meanwhile. I do not use the GPS navigation so much as I do not need it (I study the map before leaving and at the stops, if needed), I used it mostly offroad with the mountain bike and it is good enough for me.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:53 PM   #28
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Ok so today I downloaded copilot and looked at OSMand,I wonder if I should mess with OSMand? I have google maps already,the thing with google maps is I do a lot of trails/fire roads and google doesn't seem to cover those,any thought from the group?I'm gonna eventually warm up to modern navigation!I own a Sextant from my sailing days but its odd to use it in Bakersfield on my way to Vegas!
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:21 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worwig View Post


A smartphone does not need a data place to be used as a GPS. A smartphone as a GPS works well where there is no phone service. It is just a matter of installing the right app.
In fact, most recent smartphones not only have the GPS chip set, they also have a Glonass chip set. Plus as a bonus, they can still give a rough location from the cell towers and WiFi if you are near those. So it is not unusual for them to get an initial location lock must faster then a run of the mill Garmin, and give you 12 or more satellite fixes even in poor sky visibility. Not something you get from a Garmin.
Can someone help out a techno dummy here... Anyone know if the Samsung rugby smart has the chip? I spend about 50% of my time outside of cell phone coverage and it's where GPS is most important to me. When I bring up google maps there I get a message that says something like "no data location available" - is there some setting I can set so I can at least use the GPS chip in the phone even if there is no cell coverage?

(FWIW I just figured out what an "app" was last week... at least I think I know what it is! 8lives I do however know what a sextant is... I must sound pretty old!)
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:52 AM   #30
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It's kinda simple.
If you get 100 USD priced smartphone do not expect it to work as good as 600 USD GPS.
If you get 500 USD smartphone it will be faster than 500 USD GPS.

It does not need data plan to transfer info to PC ( thou I can't imaging not having it nowadays). If your PC at home you can walk into WiFi spot when you get close to civilization and connect to Internet and your data will upload etc. etc.
Or if your PC with you you can simply connect to it - BT, cable, Wife peer-to-peer and upload.
I use Galaxy S2. Screen is bigger than GPS.
I use hard waterproof case that attaching and detaching as simple as anything else.

Capacitive screens do not react to touch in thick gloves, but do react to touch in my summer leather gloves.
If you want you can work on tuning sensitivity of the screen, but to be fair it is pain on S2.
Or you can sew in conductive tread - and it works, despite people say it should not.

Battery life is concern, but since I run other stuff from same splitter I always have my smartphone plugged in and did same with GPS before.

There are loads of free navigation software for Android and even more chargeable but cheap software and maps.
You can have road info online, but you can switch it off to avoid data traffic.

S2 for example have excellent GPS receiver chipset in it and good triangulation, making position acquisition very fast.
You do not need data plan even for that. Triangulation does not use data traffic. But in any case it will work without triangulation just fine. Route recalculation also lightning fast IF you have good smartphone with serious CPU etc.

So, performance wise PND GPS or smartphone - not sure GPS wins.

GPS wins on waterproofness, ruggedization and touch sensitive screen.

Smartphone wins on connectivity, ability to synch automatically, pure performance/power, size, weight, flexibility to use any software and any maps and triangulation-based rough positioning, having standardized charging interface (let's not talk iPhones :))
Saying that I seen my friend's iPhone (I do not like iPhones to be frank) rolling off his bike at 50 kmph in very same type of hard case I use with my Galaxy and nothing happened. It bounced off road few times and flew almost under my bike but no damage. Reason was - he left it on the tank instead of putting into holder.

However, if you want there is rugged smartphones available, Android based. For example Runbo X3 and X5.
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