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Old 02-10-2012, 03:48 PM   #1
acap650 OP
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R80ST sidestand dilemma solved

After years of frustration with the impossible to deploy springback stand I finally jettisoned the ugly contraption and replaced it with Carl's well designed stand (http://www.flyingtpot.com/sidestands.htm). I guess BMW did not consider those of us with inseams 30 in. and under worthy enough to purchase a G/S or ST.

Why did I wait so long to make the change? Safety - I admit I cannot be trusted to flip up the stand before riding off into oblivion where my first left turn might be my last.

Eventually I decided I would either have to find a solution or sell the bike. I considered installing an engine cutoff system as all newer bikes have but I did not have the confidence that my amateur engineering could be trusted and losing engine power on the road can be risky,

The solution I came up with (and maybe others have as well) is a 90 dB piezo beeper triggered by a simple magnetic switch, both of which came from RadioShack.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2062399



http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2419297



Power is taken from below the blue 5 pin terminal with key-on 12V+ wired directly to the beeper with the mag switch providing ground when the stand is down with ignition on. The beeper only draws 0.012 A but is plenty loud as it resonates off the tank.

I should have done this years ago.
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Old 02-10-2012, 09:59 PM   #2
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I took a straight edge to the photo posted by Carl. I see it very closely matches the rocker cover for extension into the lean angle. Seems like a small adjustment to the leading edge of the upraised stand to remove the sharp corners (more like a ski tip) would minimize potential "dig-in" danger. A "hero blob" aluminum stud attached to the bottom outside edge of the footpeg would also give warning of impending contact. I have recently installed lowered footpegs that I expect to take care of that idea if I get too silly in the corners.

As for me, I most always have saddlebags on which would touch down first when doing any aggressive riding. Off pavement issues seem non existant. Having tried to use the stock stand in gravel with a fully loaded touring platform is more of a headache than your concerns are to me.

Still, Carl might be smart to offer Acap650's alarm fix as an option.
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Fishnbiker screwed with this post 02-10-2012 at 10:34 PM
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Old 02-10-2012, 11:08 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishnbiker View Post
I took a straight edge to the photo posted by Carl. I see it very closely matches the rocker cover for extension into the lean angle. Seems like a small adjustment to the leading edge of the upraised stand to remove the sharp corners (more like a ski tip) would minimize potential "dig-in" danger. A "hero blob" aluminum stud attached to the bottom outside edge of the footpeg would also give warning of impending contact. I have recently installed lowered footpegs that I expect to take care of that idea if I get too silly in the corners.

As for me, I most always have saddlebags on which would touch down first when doing any aggressive riding. Off pavement issues seem non existant. Having tried to use the stock stand in gravel with a fully loaded touring platform is more of a headache than your concerns are to me.

Still, Carl might be smart to offer Acap650's alarm fix as an option.
I am just trying to save someone from getting hurt Fishnbiker. Like I said in my post earlier, putting a straight edge on that photo of the bike with the suspension fully extended has nothing to do with actually riding it around a corner and perhaps hitting a bump. Take a photo like that with the suspension damn near bottomed out like what happens in real life and get your straight edge out. You might want to come back and re-read what I have been saying. That photo Carl showed has almost nothing to do with cornering clearance while the bike is actually being ridden.

That side stand is going to touch down LONG before your saddle bags or anything else for that matter.

supershaft screwed with this post 02-10-2012 at 11:13 PM
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Old 02-10-2012, 11:10 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Bill Harris View Post
Carl +1.
Billy -1.

IMO, of course.

I disabled the auto-retract embarrassment soon after purchasing the bike and upgraded to a Brown's sidestand soon after discovering it in 1999. And regret neither.

I've considered an electromechanical reminder to forgetting to self-retract the SS but haven't had the necessity, yet.
A Brown's side stand and that side stand are two completely different animals as far as corning clearance is concerned.

supershaft screwed with this post 02-10-2012 at 11:20 PM
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Old 02-11-2012, 02:48 AM   #5
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I love the original stand, I wonder if the problem is to do with the rider having short legs, rather than the design of the stand?
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Old 02-11-2012, 06:37 AM   #6
acap650 OP
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Originally Posted by Carl View Post
Billy, Neither of should be raining on acap650's engineering parade. Start another thread for 'tin man' theatrics.

Sorry Mr acap650 for the stray posts to your thread. You did a fine piece of engineering to get your intent solved,

Carl
Thanks Carl. I did not mean to start a flame war over this BUT I can say that I had both the original and Carl's stand mounted at the same time and can say that the foot of the original stand would be about even with the forward part of the new bracket. From that point the new stand is slanted upward to the rear and its foot is well above the forward edge. The photo I posted makes the stand appear lower than it actually is.

I will settle this eventually by laying the bike over to see if bags or heads will touch down first (not a totally valid test since the suspension will not be compressed as it would be at speed in a corner).

To be continued . . . .
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Old 02-11-2012, 07:23 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by England-Kev View Post
I love the original stand, I wonder if the problem is to do with the rider having short legs, rather than the design of the stand?
I actually do not have a problem with the auto retract nature of the original stand, only its forward position, since my 29 in. inseam will not allow me to hold the stand past the point of stability when parking. I find it inexcusable that BMW would not test the stand's operation with shorter riders, in fact I would bet it would not pass the TUV standards if offered today.

The other problem with the stand in its forward position is that it loads the rear wheel more than the front wheel when parked so a low side tipover will cause the front wheel to lift first. Guzzis are the worst in this regard.

The most stable stands are those which place the foot near the longitudinal center of mass so that front and rear wheels are equally weighted when the bike is parked.

In addition it helps to have the stand project out as far as possible to the side when deployed to create a wider and thus more stable triangle of support. Ducatis are the worst for this.

Strangely enough, I believe Harleys have the most stable sidestands (oops I meant jiffy stands). Not only are they properly placed but the weight of the leaning bike locks them so that the stand will not retract if the bike is pushed forward. This makes sense since Harley has never offered a centerstand that I know of.

As you can see, kickstands are a pet peeve of mine. I can't understand why there are so many bad designs when the geometry and physics are so simple.
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Old 02-11-2012, 08:14 AM   #8
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Pissing contest removed.

Please stop wasting my time with crap like that.

Thank you.
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Old 02-11-2012, 09:32 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acap650 View Post
Strangely enough, I believe Harleys have the most stable sidestands (oops I meant jiffy stands). Not only are they properly placed but the weight of the leaning bike locks them so that the stand will not retract if the bike is pushed forward. This makes sense since Harley has never offered a centerstand that I know of.

As you can see, kickstands are a pet peeve of mine. I can't understand why there are so many bad designs when the geometry and physics are so simple.

Always liked the side stand on my early K series . The clutch arm presses on an adjustable rod that automatically retracts the stand when you pull the clutch lever in .
Harley does offer a center stand . Have one for my FLHT to aid rear wheel removal . They also offer a front one to raise the front wheel as well . They refer to it as a 'display stand' .

Have fun .



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Old 02-11-2012, 11:30 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by FR700 View Post
Always liked the side stand on my early K series . The clutch arm presses on an adjustable rod that automatically retracts the stand when you pull the clutch lever in .
Harley does offer a center stand . Have one for my FLHT to aid rear wheel removal . They also offer a front one to raise the front wheel as well . They refer to it as a 'display stand' .

Have fun .



.
Thanks for the correction. I've seen aftermarket Harley centerstands but never OEM ones.

And yes the clutch operated sidestand retractor on the K-bikes was clever - and it will never kill your engine like a malfunctioning safety switch.
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Old 02-11-2012, 01:26 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acap650 View Post
Thanks Carl. I did not mean to start a flame war over this BUT I can say that I had both the original and Carl's stand mounted at the same time and can say that the foot of the original stand would be about even with the forward part of the new bracket. From that point the new stand is slanted upward to the rear and its foot is well above the forward edge. The photo I posted makes the stand appear lower than it actually is.

I will settle this eventually by laying the bike over to see if bags or heads will touch down first (not a totally valid test since the suspension will not be compressed as it would be at speed in a corner).

To be continued . . . .
Who is it straying from the topic of the side stand?

Be careful acap650. The part of the original stand hanging down that low was not a thick, solid piece of rigidly mounted steel. The part of the original stand hanging down that low will flex and move out of harms way to a large degree. Your new side stand mount won't. That is what makes it so dangerous. You don't have to be riding that fast to get into that mount. I would hate to get into it while I was avoiding something!

Laying the bike over with fully extended suspension is a pointless test. Take the springs out of the forks and the shock off and then lean it over. I bet that will point out my concerns for your safety. I am afraid you have bolted on a side stand dilemma at speed. IMO much worse than having one while you are parked. Good luck.

I hope this doesn't get me banned again but it is important IMO.

supershaft screwed with this post 02-11-2012 at 01:33 PM
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Old 02-11-2012, 02:11 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by supershaft View Post
Who is it straying from the topic of the side stand?

Be careful acap650. The part of the original stand hanging down that low was not a thick, solid piece of rigidly mounted steel. The part of the original stand hanging down that low will flex and move out of harms way to a large degree. Your new side stand mount won't. That is what makes it so dangerous. You don't have to be riding that fast to get into that mount. I would hate to get into it while I was avoiding something!

Laying the bike over with fully extended suspension is a pointless test. Take the springs out of the forks and the shock off and then lean it over. I bet that will point out my concerns for your safety. I am afraid you have bolted on a side stand dilemma at speed. IMO much worse than having one while you are parked. Good luck.

I hope this doesn't get me banned again but it is important IMO.
[FULL NAME REMOVED, FLOOD], Why hope, it is just a matter of time before you're banned. You're going to beat another personal 'agenda' of yours to death no matter what anyone writes or is factual. Instead of telling others what to do, you should test your agenda and then report back your findings.

Some riders like the original sidestand design. To each their own. Other riders want an alternative.

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Flood screwed with this post 02-12-2012 at 02:15 PM Reason: Personal info edited.
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Old 02-11-2012, 03:42 PM   #13
One Less Harley
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Well SS does come across as harsh at times, but generally knows what he's talking about. Just think of his critique as a reminder when changing anything on a bike it's wise to think what might be effected. Don't just go bolting things on and not thinking about what problems might arise. Pretty good to consider all things when lowering foot pegs, after market side stands, heavy aftermarket hard bags etc, etc, etc...... Bad thing is it's those unforeseen problems that will at best put you into a ditch and at worst the coffin.

I've noted potential problems to other products for sale here and generally the seller (fabricator) doesn't take to kindly to critiques of their hard work, but sometimes a second set of eyes and experience is good, but many times falls into a pissing contest.
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One Less Harley screwed with this post 02-11-2012 at 03:48 PM
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Old 02-11-2012, 03:59 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by One Less Harley View Post
Well SS does come across as harsh at times, but generally knows what he's talking about. Just think of his critique as a reminder when changing anything on a bike it's wise to think what might be effected. Don't just go bolting things on and not thinking about what problems might arise. Pretty good to consider all things when lowering foot pegs, after market side stands, heavy aftermarket hard bags etc, etc, etc...... Bad thing is it's those unforeseen problems that will at best put you into a ditch and at worst the coffin.

I've noted potential problems to other products for sale here and generally the seller (fabricator) doesn't take to kindly to critiques of their hard work, but sometimes a second set of eyes and experience is good, but many times falls into a pissing contest.
Stating that someone knows what they are taliking about is subjective.

Having a second set eyes is easy to have. Using that second set of eyes w/ finesse, humbleness and some integrity is an attribute you earn. You don't earn it w/ a humongous amount of posts and hammering the same rhetoric over and over....

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Old 02-11-2012, 04:30 PM   #15
One Less Harley
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Ok on a side note, I can see the advantages of the side stand for short people the self retracting is a PITA for short people. I have had issues w/ mine retracting in certain situations even at 6'2", but this would be less than 1/2% of times. Even thought about purchasing yours, but after seeing Jenna's there were a couple things about it's design I didn't like. It is well made (like an anvil) and sturdy, but is of a design I don't like. I do appreciate that you (Carl) have taken the time to fabricate parts and offer services for our BMW's.


(stop reading here............not topic related)

There are quite a few people that know what they are talking about here. My "subjective" opinion on that is based on reading post over the years and drawing my own conclusions to knowledge base and experience of BMW's.
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One Less Harley screwed with this post 02-11-2012 at 06:05 PM
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