ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > GSpot > GS Boxers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-02-2013, 10:14 AM   #1
MikeO OP
Wage slave...
 
MikeO's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Scarning, Norfolk, today...
Oddometer: 6,673
No power to dipped beam - 2003 1150GS Adv

Hi there,

My bike (2003 R1150GS Adv) is still in disarray as I wait for parts to arrive from around the world

Today I wired in my Autoswitch and got all the wiring ready to connect to my driving lights for when the new mounts turn up.

I fitted Dip & Main Beam HIDs (Les Wassall) a couple of weeks ago. The bike has not been used since they were fitted (no fuel tank). I tried them during the week and they were fine. Today, after I'd done the wiring work, I noticed that the dipped beam was out. Thinking I'd knocked a connection loose, I checked them all and they are sound. The main beam HID and the sidelight LED work as normal. I do not know whether the light was working before I started work today.

Going back to basics, I took the two pin plug off the side of the dipped headlamp rear 'bayonet' cover. With the ignition on, I am not getting power to this plug (my bike has no headlamp switch, so dipped beam should be on all the time that the ignition is on). This explains why the headlamp is not working - but it's not a fused circuit and the wires just disappear into the main loom, so I'm a little unsure of what my next step should be - any suggestions?

By the way - to cover ground already trodden at UKGSer - I replaced the ignition loom with a new one as a precaution earlier this week and did a successful functionality check afterwards. I have tried disconnecting each set of handlebar switchgear in turn with no effect.

Mike
__________________
All text & original photos © Mike Oughton 2004 - 2014
MikeO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2013, 05:54 PM   #2
Jazz62
Studly Adventurer
 
Jazz62's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: Midwest
Oddometer: 970
Is it possible that your battery is not fully charged and there's not enough juice to get the HID igniter to fire up?
Jazz62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 12:18 AM   #3
Zoef zoef
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Finnøy Island, near Stavanger, Norway
Oddometer: 341
Sir,
As the autoswitch seems to be the last one you worked on after everything was in order, it could be wise to start there. How exactly did you wire the autoswitch in?
Zoef zoef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 12:18 AM   #4
MikeO OP
Wage slave...
 
MikeO's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Scarning, Norfolk, today...
Oddometer: 6,673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazz62 View Post
Is it possible that your battery is not fully charged and there's not enough juice to get the HID igniter to fire up?
The battery is new (1 month) and yhe bike has been on an Optimate; there's enough power to fire the main beam HID; there is no power to the dipped connector...

Mike
__________________
All text & original photos © Mike Oughton 2004 - 2014
MikeO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 12:27 AM   #5
MikeO OP
Wage slave...
 
MikeO's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Scarning, Norfolk, today...
Oddometer: 6,673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoef zoef View Post
Sir,
As the autoswitch seems to be the last one you worked on after everything was in order, it could be wise to start there. How exactly did you wire the autoswitch in?
The only connection I made yesterday was to connect the purple wire (the one to the positive side of the relay switching circuit) to the fog lamp loom - all the other connections had been made previously and the headlamp functioned normally. I will disconnect this to see if it makes any difference. In fact I can disconnect the entire fog lamp loom to see if that cures it - will report back...

Mike
__________________
All text & original photos © Mike Oughton 2004 - 2014
MikeO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 04:54 AM   #6
MikeO OP
Wage slave...
 
MikeO's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Scarning, Norfolk, today...
Oddometer: 6,673
OK - stuff I've now tested:

Connected power and earth directly to the headlamp socket - HID firews up as expected, so its definitely a power supply problem.

Disconnected the only Autoswitch connection I made before noticing the failure (purple Autoswitch wire to the 'Power On' connection of the BMW fog lamp loom) - this had no effect (as expected).

I'm a bit flummoxed as to what to do next. The problem doesnt seem to be in any of the areas I have done work and the light was working perfectly a week or so ago when Peter & I fitted it. The two cables disappear into the loom ahead of the headstock...

Anybody got any ideas?

Mike
__________________
All text & original photos © Mike Oughton 2004 - 2014
MikeO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 02:38 PM   #7
MikeO OP
Wage slave...
 
MikeO's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Scarning, Norfolk, today...
Oddometer: 6,673
Thumb Resolved!

Fuse 8 - marked as 'Spare' in my Owner's Manual - actually powers the ABS, dipped headlamp and instrument lights. Since I have removed the Servo & ABS from my bike, I got no warning from the ABS light to tell me there had been a failure.

I am going to open up the rear of each of the headlamps to double insulate all the connectors to the HIDs, as I suspect that this may have been the source of the fuse failure...

Cheers,

Mike
__________________
All text & original photos © Mike Oughton 2004 - 2014
MikeO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 04:13 PM   #8
Mike Ryder
Kriegerkuh
 
Mike Ryder's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Peachland B.C. Canada
Oddometer: 889
I thought the headlights were un-fused. Am going out to check mine now.
__________________
Yes I am quite serious.
Mike Ryder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 04:25 PM   #9
MikeO OP
Wage slave...
 
MikeO's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Scarning, Norfolk, today...
Oddometer: 6,673
From Ian Hartley on UKGSer, who traced the wiring on his bike to try to solve my issue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian J Hartley View Post
This is where it's likely to get confusing, because the layout for the R1150GS single spark, and the twin spark are different.

On the twin spark
Fuse 8 does only the low beam and instrument lights.
Fuse 9 does the ABS warning.

On the single spark
Fuse 8 not used
Fuse 9 not used.

At least we know the fuse wiring for the twin spark.
Mike
__________________
All text & original photos © Mike Oughton 2004 - 2014
MikeO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 07:18 PM   #10
Mike Ryder
Kriegerkuh
 
Mike Ryder's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Peachland B.C. Canada
Oddometer: 889
ah, so. 2002 single spark, fuze #8 spare.
Thanks MikeO
__________________
Yes I am quite serious.
Mike Ryder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2013, 06:51 AM   #11
Poolside
Syndicated
 
Poolside's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Oddometer: 11,744

Hey there Mike, I hope the fuse turns out to be the solution.

In case it isn't, it might be a flex-to-break problem in the wire loom located at the bending point where the wire loom traverses between the triple clamp and steering head. (If you can even call them that on a telelever. )

I know, why is the dipped beam wiring going to the throttle perch? If I remember right the power supply lead for the headlights first travels to the right side throttle perch.

Inside the perch the power supply lead splits into two leads, one each for the main and dipped beam. The low beam wiring runs up to the handlebar perch because Europe bikes have a 'headlight off' switch for use in well-lit urban areas. (That's what the low-wattage position lamp in the main beam reflector is for.) The US bikes don't have the headlight off switch, but the wiring is there, and there's a jumper plug in place of the switch to route to power to the two headlamps.

Anyway, that steering head flex point is a common cause of shorts and open circuits in the wire loom. I don't know what additional wiring you installed for the HID lamps, but a innocently-placed zip tie could have been the last straw for that steering head bending point.


p.s.: Ordinarily I'm all for that the solution is most often the simplest one, ala Occam's razor. But it looks like you tried all of the simple ones so far.



__________________

IICE Air Hotrod your GS  Fuel Injection  Tech Info  Buy  Order List  Installation
Poolside is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2013, 07:02 AM   #12
MikeO OP
Wage slave...
 
MikeO's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Scarning, Norfolk, today...
Oddometer: 6,673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
Hey there Mike, I hope the fuse turns out to be the solution.

In case it isn't, it might be a flex-to-break problem in the wire loom located at the bending point where the wire loom traverses between the triple clamp and steering head. (If you can even call them that on a telelever. )

I know, why is the dipped beam wiring going to the throttle perch? If I remember right the power supply lead for the headlights first travels to the right side throttle perch.

Inside the perch the power supply lead splits into two leads, one each for the main and dipped beam. The low beam wiring runs up to the handlebar perch because Europe bikes have a 'headlight off' switch for use in well-lit urban areas. (That's what the low-wattage position lamp in the main beam reflector is for.) The US bikes don't have the headlight off switch, but the wiring is there, and there's a jumper plug in place of the switch to route to power to the two headlamps.

Anyway, that steering head flex point is a common cause of shorts and open circuits in the wire loom. I don't know what additional wiring you installed for the HID lamps, but a innocently-placed zip tie could have been the last straw for that steering head bending point.


p.s.: Ordinarily I'm all for that the solution is most often the simplest one, ala Occam's razor. But it looks like you tried all of the simple ones so far.


Hi Poolside,

It was indeed the fuse

I'm going to open up the rear of both headlamps to re-insulate everything in there, as I have a feeling that, with all the extra connections fitted into that small space, it may be that the original connectors have been pushed towards one another and this is perhaps what caused the original short.

My bike (2003) was one of the first UK bikes without a headlamp switch. It doesn't look like the wiring goes to the handlebar switch (it may have in early models) - here's what Ian Hartley found when he was going well above and beyond the call of duty trying to track down the cause of my failure:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian J Hartley View Post
I've done some checking around for you. the wiring on my bike 03 GS twinspark with abs servo brakes cannot be that different from yours.

The instrument lights are powered by the green/blue wire which runs through connector x9003 (12 way). this is the bottom right connector block on the headstock as viewed from above. It's coloured white and opaque. The green/blue runs through the connector at position 12 and connects to the grey/blue wire the other side.

Check for power at the green/blue here to see if the instrument lights are getting power. I suspect not.

The low beam wiring, together with the high beam and front indicators all come together in a loom which runs across the front brace, passing down the left hand side of the bike, passing next to the horn where the horn cable feeds into this loom. this loom then carries on down the left hand side of the bike into the main loom.

I believe that all the green/blue wires connect inside the fuse box. if you know how they make these looms it would be a good place to look. Basically they gather all the green/blue wires which run from every switch and connector and join the whole lot together with a big crimp. This crimp is inside the fusebox.

It's worth undoing the cable ties at the top end of the loom and flex the loom to see if you can get power (possible break in the cable) examine the loom to make sure it hasn't chaffed through. if it's shorted through somewhere, you may well have melted the wire, which could have taken out your instrument lights as well, depending on how the two are connected at the crimp.

You can try a continuity test between the positive low beam and ground to see what resistance you get it should be a very low resitance but not short, this is because the continuity check is also going across the instrument light bulbs. If you disconnect X9003 this will remove the instrument light circuit, then the resistance across the low beam positive and earth should be open circuit.

Now I don't know what HIDs you fitted, but if they are like mine where you use the existing connector and plastic cover, drilling a hole in the rear to pass the HID wiring through a rubber gromet, Then it is likely that you have inadvertantly shorted the positive and earth together inside the cover and fried your wiring.I was concerned enough about this, that when I did my HID's I put an insulation boot on the right angle earth connected, so both the positive and earth were insulated from one another.

If you think about it, this all started after you tried to fit your HID's, so my detuction is somewhere along the length of the green/blue wire from the low beam connector to the load relief relay is a melted piece of wire. My guess is it's in the fuse box, at or near the crimp.

I hope I'm wrong, and it's something simply, but right now I can't see it. I've checked just about everything I can using my bike as a reference, and it's the only conclusion I can come too.

Good luck with this one. I'm off to put my bike back together.
And then later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian J Hartley View Post
Think I might have found it. On my bike fuse 8 (ABS) also powers the low beam circuit. Pull the fuse and my low beam and instrument lights go out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian J Hartley View Post
This is where it's likely to get confusing, because the layout for the R1150GS single spark, and the twin spark are different.

On the twin spark
Fuse 8 does only the low beam and instrument lights.
Fuse 9 does the ABS warning.

On the single spark
Fuse 8 not used
Fuse 9 not used.

At least we know the fuse wiring for the twin spark.
Needless to say, I owe Ian a few beers...

Mike
__________________
All text & original photos © Mike Oughton 2004 - 2014
MikeO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2013, 07:23 AM   #13
Poolside
Syndicated
 
Poolside's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Oddometer: 11,744

It takes a village sometimes doesn't it?

Thanks for the information Ian, it helps all of us!



__________________

IICE Air Hotrod your GS  Fuel Injection  Tech Info  Buy  Order List  Installation
Poolside is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 07:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014