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Old 02-28-2013, 10:51 PM   #31
Head2Wind
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I wonder how many race vehicles that compete at the Baja 1000 the MX 1000 or the Dakar use pleated cotton gauze intake air filters?
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:58 PM   #32
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Probley not meny and the one's that do most likely have the pre filter cover also .
I'm sure someone will chime in with some facts ...........
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:32 PM   #33
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Have used KN filters for 40 years, never saw any dirt pass through. I've seen these filters so dirty that you couldn't see the pleats, ran just fine and no dirt inside. These will not pass water either, if you dunk it, the engine just dies. The oil treatment will last for a very long time, which is important for street vehicles. Very easy to clean, spray on cleaner, rinse, let dry, spray oil. Will last as long as the vehicle if you don't destroy it with a compressed air gun.

NOT SO with the oiled foam. These will dry out and pass dirt. Oiled foam works by having many twisting passages lined with sticky oil. The air can turn the corners, the dirt can't and sticks to the walls. When all the walls are covered with dirt, then new dirt doesn't stick any more. It works with frequent service, not good for street bikes that may dry the oil out before the 10k service schedule. I've seen many, many engines dusted out with a poorly serviced foam filter. PIA to clean and oil.

Paper filters are just a screen door to keep out the bugs and birds.
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Old 03-01-2013, 12:03 AM   #34
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Well put Zuber. I have had the same good luck with K&N Filters. Running it on my 990 with no issues.


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Old 03-01-2013, 12:21 AM   #35
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Its a toughie....

On one hand the stock paper element does probably/definitely (choose what you want here) a better job with fine dust, on the other hand free flow filters like K&N, DNA, etc, really do a very good job in mitigating power wheelies one gear up. Put one of these in, jet, and you have a different bike.

I think the most productive way to see them is the same way we view tyres. We choose them according to the terrain we ride on every time.

So, changing filters according to the ride is no big deal, but what happens with jetting or injection? My view on this is that if a bike is jetted only just slightly lean for a DNA/KN/Whatever then it will work fine with stock too, keeping in mind that wherever there is a lot of dust, top -end power is not that important. Maybe also, different jetting is not even needed in the first place. I am currently running a DNA and have gone up to 160/165 mains, which seems to work fine with either stock or DNA (but will not power wheelie on 2nd with stock).
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Old 03-01-2013, 12:22 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuber View Post
Have used KN filters for 40 years, never saw any dirt pass through. I've seen these filters so dirty that you couldn't see the pleats, ran just fine and no dirt inside. These will not pass water either, if you dunk it, the engine just dies. The oil treatment will last for a very long time, which is important for street vehicles. Very easy to clean, spray on cleaner, rinse, let dry, spray oil. Will last as long as the vehicle if you don't destroy it with a compressed air gun.

NOT SO with the oiled foam. These will dry out and pass dirt. Oiled foam works by having many twisting passages lined with sticky oil. The air can turn the corners, the dirt can't and sticks to the walls. When all the walls are covered with dirt, then new dirt doesn't stick any more. It works with frequent service, not good for street bikes that may dry the oil out before the 10k service schedule. I've seen many, many engines dusted out with a poorly serviced foam filter. PIA to clean and oil.

Paper filters are just a screen door to keep out the bugs and birds.
Zuber, what is your advice with main jets if running such a filter?
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Old 03-01-2013, 12:56 AM   #37
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unifilter

Well picked up my bike from Unifilter yesterday and have done about 100k's and the bike runs fine, will do some more k's as soon as the weather breaks and see if it effects fuel etc. Have some pics to share.
These are the neoprene washers on the TB


There are two filters yellow is the inner and orange is outer.


The inner fitted


The outer fitted


There is a rubber seal that goes in here to make it watertight

There are filters for the hoses too




I now have three foam filters, this maybe overkill but the bike is running fine and has really good protection. These will be in production in the next week or two and the kit will retail for about $95.00 AUS I would like to add I have no connection with Unifilter they simply used my bike to make the prototype filter.
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Old 03-01-2013, 08:27 AM   #38
ABuck99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnf3 View Post
The filters between the two are different. This K&N might be better than their old cheese cloth material but you won't see me trying it. Oiled foam filters for me only now that they are available.
I tend to agree with John on the UNI-filter- I like foam filters as a personal preference, kind of like a preference of a brand of oil or tires, but I don't have any real data to say one is better over the other in airflow or filtering. A bench flow comparison test might be interesting to see.

Pleated K&N style(washable paper) filters work well, flow air evenly and provide good service life. Ive read that some guys over on the 690 thread had some negatives with K&N- not sealing well, and letting some debris by.

If I were to choose a paper media filter over foam, I would select BMC. Why? Reputation, proprietary design, engineering , leader in F1 & GP racing development, and military endorsement. I went through the BMC factory in Italy a few years ago and was very much impressed with their state of the art production, the proprietary silicon rubber seal they use for the filter base, and their leading reputation in the F1 & GP racing world & military aero environments. At the time I toured their facility, BMC was the #1 supplier for Formula 1 teams, and GP teams. They had a separate secured facility in their factory that was dedicated to F1 & military filter development. BMC also manufactures using the same filter media for military helicopters used in dessert combat. Sand combat environments for helicopter failure rates are measured in flight minutes, not hours, & the BMC product extended service life exponentially. Its why BMC had been selected by the US Military as the exclusive supplier for their combat choppers in Dessert Storm. The F1, Moto GP, & Military endorsement sold me.
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Old 03-01-2013, 08:00 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boulder View Post
Well picked up my bike from Unifilter yesterday and have done about 100k's and the bike runs fine, will do some more k's as soon as the weather breaks and see if it effects fuel etc. Have some pics to share.
These are the neoprene washers on the TB

I now have three foam filters, this maybe overkill but the bike is running fine and has really good protection. These will be in production in the next week or two and the kit will retail for about $95.00 AUS I would like to add I have no connection with Unifilter they simply used my bike to make the prototype filter.
Will these stretch to fit the carbed models? Or is there a separate offering being produced?
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Old 03-01-2013, 08:28 PM   #40
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Lab Test Data

This link has some interesting test results: http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html

I tried using K & N's on my vintage motocrossers for a couple of seasons. I like the ease of cleaning, but went back to TwinAir. The K & N's are easier and less messy to clean, and they apparently hold a lot of dirt, but I was always finding dust in the carb. And if any water found its way into the airbox it would pass right through the K & N. The only thing that would keep the waterout was a PreCharger sleeve type filterwrap. And for the record, I only used K and N oil, and in copious amounts.
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:33 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuber View Post
Have used KN filters for 40 years, never saw any dirt pass through. I've seen these filters so dirty that you couldn't see the pleats, ran just fine and no dirt inside. These will not pass water either, if you dunk it, the engine just dies. The oil treatment will last for a very long time, which is important for street vehicles. Very easy to clean, spray on cleaner, rinse, let dry, spray oil. Will last as long as the vehicle if you don't destroy it with a compressed air gun.

NOT SO with the oiled foam. These will dry out and pass dirt. Oiled foam works by having many twisting passages lined with sticky oil. The air can turn the corners, the dirt can't and sticks to the walls. When all the walls are covered with dirt, then new dirt doesn't stick any more. It works with frequent service, not good for street bikes that may dry the oil out before the 10k service schedule. I've seen many, many engines dusted out with a poorly serviced foam filter. PIA to clean and oil.

Paper filters are just a screen door to keep out the bugs and birds.
Have to disagree with this comment. I have first hand experience of this. Drowned the bike, couldn't stall it due to rekluse clutch and couldn't hit kill switch in time. The bike stalled alright when it became hydrolocked. Only the right hand pipe flooded (front cylinder). Airbox was completely flooded, both intakes full to the brim with water, at least it was clean. Was using a uni prefilter as well. The good thing was being able to put both filters in the sun to dry out in an hour or so while I and others dewatered the bike.
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:59 PM   #42
boulder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete640 View Post
Will these stretch to fit the carbed models? Or is there a separate offering being produced?
They reckon they will fit the 950.
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:06 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boulder View Post
Well picked up my bike from Unifilter yesterday and have done about 100k's and the bike runs fine, will do some more k's as soon as the weather breaks and see if it effects fuel etc. Have some pics to share.
These are the neoprene washers on the TB


There are two filters yellow is the inner and orange is outer.


The inner fitted


The outer fitted


There is a rubber seal that goes in here to make it watertight

There are filters for the hoses too




I now have three foam filters, this maybe overkill but the bike is running fine and has really good protection. These will be in production in the next week or two and the kit will retail for about $95.00 AUS I would like to add I have no connection with Unifilter they simply used my bike to make the prototype filter.
Nice! Intriguing. How does it seal around the throttle bodies though? And some more info in the watertight seal you speak of would be much appreciated... Thanks! Looks very good so far. I would just want to make sure it seals properly. I'm still going to run my K&N that's on the way, but....
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Old 03-05-2013, 12:38 AM   #44
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i have ran K&N's on every dirt motorcycle i've owned in dry dusty aussie conditions , on my road bikes & 4wd.
never once have i had a problem with poor filtration.
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Old 03-05-2013, 06:11 PM   #45
boulder
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Final Unifilter

OK unifilter have now finished there final product, I have one in my bike now and am very happy with it.
Here is the final design.
Here you can see both filters the inner has the spring and the trumpet from the TB fitted on the left and you can see the right side with the spring ready to be fitted.




Once you have both Trumpets in the inner filter just tighten the reusable cable ties up so the filter is snug. Place the front Trumpet on and lock in to place and repeat with the rear Trumpet.


Now fit the orange outer filter over the inner and lock the velcro strap.



Everything else is the same as my first post. These filters are now in production.
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