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Old 02-11-2013, 10:06 AM   #31
StuartV
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Originally Posted by JetSpeed View Post
I've never hit the horn and had it change anybodies mind that I recall
I have had numerous occasions where I have anticipated something like a car driver changing into my lane. I see the car make that first little twitch and hit my horn. On numerous occasions, this has gotten the driver's attention and caused them to swerve (slightly) back into their own lane.

In 25+ years of street riding, I have *almost* never had to really take evasion action. As in, maybe 2 or 3 times, total. And I've never had an accident where another vehicle was involved.

OTOH, the guys that I've ridden with that do seem to have to take evasive action on a semi-regular basis - or even have accidents because of, or involving, a car - I can watch those guys and see that they just do not display good skills in the areas of anticipation and/or paying attention. They have to take evasive action because of something that surprises them, where I saw it coming way in advance.

And.... getting back to the OP... I think I made a solid case for why the Japanese style switchgear is better (safer) - in an earlier post in this thread. If you're posting in here to echo the sentiment that the BMW gear "works fine for you" or "if you can't get used to it, you should find a different hobby than motorcycling", well, how about you give some logical basis for why my earlier post is not correct (regarding the BMW switchgear being less safe)?
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:34 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by StuartV View Post
... OTOH, the guys that I've ridden with that do seem to have to take evasive action on a semi-regular basis - or even have accidents because of, or involving, a car - I can watch those guys and see that they just do not display good skills in the areas of anticipation and/or paying attention. They have to take evasive action because of something that surprises them, where I saw it coming way in advance.
The best riders I know are all very good at anticipating (and avoiding) potential trouble.

Quote:
And.... getting back to the OP... I think I made a solid case for why the Japanese style switchgear is better (safer) - in an earlier post in this thread. If you're posting in here to echo the sentiment that the BMW gear "works fine for you" or "if you can't get used to it, you should find a different hobby than motorcycling", well, how about you give some logical basis for why my earlier post is not correct (regarding the BMW switchgear being less safe)?
Anecdotally, I don't find enough difference to be able to say one system is better than the other. I DO favor the switchgear on my DR350, where the turn signal lever locks in place, then snaps back to the center with a very obvious click when pressed.

The Signalminder unit adds a toggle feature to the non-canbus BMWs, where you can press the same button again to turn the left or right signal off. This is in addition to having a timer cancellation feature.
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:11 PM   #33
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Yup, the turn signal set up is the only real issue I have had with my GS. I whined about it on the "what bugs me about my bike - or whatever thread" somewhere in here, and was told I'd get used to it. Not.

Is seems that BMW agreed and went to the Jap/ Euro style on the wethead. They must have seen it as a safety issue.

Doing a right hand thumb ballet in traffic vis-a-vis the throttle was not good.

When they go to automatic transmissions in a few years they can bring them back as shift paddles al la WRX

Cheers
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:25 PM   #34
slartidbartfast
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Originally Posted by oldtrout View Post
Yup, the turn signal set up is the only real issue I have had with my GS. I whined about it on the "what bugs me about my bike - or whatever thread" somewhere in here, and was told I'd get used to it. Not.

Is seems that BMW agreed and went to the Jap/ Euro style on the wethead. They must have seen it as a safety issue. ...
I understand BMW reverted to a single left-hand switch for turn signals to optimize hand control space because there weere just too many buttons on the switchgear otherwise.
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Old 02-11-2013, 05:51 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrout View Post
Yup, the turn signal set up is the only real issue I have had with my GS. I whined about it on the "what bugs me about my bike - or whatever thread" somewhere in here, and was told I'd get used to it. Not.

Is seems that BMW agreed and went to the Jap/ Euro style on the wethead. They must have seen it as a safety issue.

Doing a right hand thumb ballet in traffic vis-a-vis the throttle was not good.

When they go to automatic transmissions in a few years they can bring them back as shift paddles al la WRX

Cheers
Logan
That's a stretch, don't you think? BMW had that turn signal set-up for 20 years. Were it a safety issue I am sure it would have gone away long ago!

Jim
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:21 PM   #36
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Hola James.

Point taken, but do the other BMW moto products have the paddle switches

System Commonality ?

Don't want to turn this into an oil issue (gotta love winter bantering !)

Keep up the good video work, and your always entertaining inputs

Ta
Logan
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:48 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by oldtrout View Post
Hola James.

Point taken, but do the other BMW moto products have the paddle switches

System Commonality ?

Don't want to turn this into an oil issue (gotta love winter bantering !)

Keep up the good video work, and your always entertaining inputs

Ta
Logan

The K-bikes all the way back to the early 80's have them, and up to 2009 (IIRC), and the R series from the 1100 in 1994 to the R1200 in 2012, and likely 2013.

Pretty much all BMWs between 1994 (maybe earlier) to 2011 had the same basic set-up.

Not trying to be confrontational at all. I am a bit surprised that some people feel these cause them to lose some measure of control over their bikes though!

Jim
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:53 PM   #38
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New GS has similar set up as Japanese and Triumph. I guess even the Germans have figured out that while the old style worked and eventually become "normal"...... the other set up was just better all around.
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Old 02-11-2013, 08:04 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
The K-bikes all the way back to the early 80's have them, and up to 2009 (IIRC), and the R series from the 1100 in 1994 to the R1200 in 2012, and likely 2013.

Pretty much all BMWs between 1994 (maybe earlier) to 2011 had the same basic set-up.

Not trying to be confrontational at all. I am a bit surprised that some people feel these cause them to lose some measure of control over their bikes though!

Jim
What frightens me is, obviously these folks are incapable of reaching a finger or two, out for the brake lever, or for that matter turning the blinker on...anything that requires use of the hand for anything but twisting the throttle. Thank god we haven't tossed in using a throttle lock..it sounds like several would have such uncontrolled throttle movement, we'd have to scrape them from the side of a mountain.

It's odd..I can ride down the road, cover and use the front brake..and just let my thumb hang there..hell, I use the o-ring throttle lock and have no problems rolling it up on the edge of the grip. I roll the throttle between my two small fingers and heel of my hand..my thumb isn't doing anything anyway..

Sorry guys..I can see you have a problem operating your motorcycle..I'm trying to understand..just don't get it.. I wish I had great advice for those who can't make it work...
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Old 02-11-2013, 08:20 PM   #40
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I see alot of folks saying you will get used to it, you will love it....stuff like that.
You MIGHT get used to it, but love it...not me.

I way prefer the Harley set up or EVERY other motorcycle set up. I have 10k miles on my RT and I still HATE the switch gear. EVERYTHING just feels wrong. I know where it is at, I CAN use it fine, it just FEELS stupid. I hate the horn button on my '96 RT. Just dumb pushing UP to honk.

I have owned alot of bikes and quickly and quite easily adjust to different set ups, but the BMW set up sucks to me anyway.
I hate the cancel feature.

I would say the only thing I really liked about my HD was the controls. If you are gonna split the blinker controls to left hand and right hand, then use the same button as the cancel...on/off. Not the stupid on then a separate button for off...
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Old 02-12-2013, 05:39 AM   #41
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I see alot of folks saying you will get used to it, you will love it....stuff like that.
You MIGHT get used to it, but love it...not me.

I way prefer the Harley set up or EVERY other motorcycle set up. I have 10k miles on my RT and I still HATE the switch gear. EVERYTHING just feels wrong. I know where it is at, I CAN use it fine, it just FEELS stupid. I hate the horn button on my '96 RT. Just dumb pushing UP to honk.

I have owned alot of bikes and quickly and quite easily adjust to different set ups, but the BMW set up sucks to me anyway.
I hate the cancel feature.

I would say the only thing I really liked about my HD was the controls. If you are gonna split the blinker controls to left hand and right hand, then use the same button as the cancel...on/off. Not the stupid on then a separate button for off...
Yes it is very odd placement, I rode more yesterday, and just practice using it more, by the way for all you guys and gals in snow country, 6 miles from Rio Grande was 73 degrees sunny and clear skies on my ride yesterday. Has not been below 40 since first week of January. "Texas theyve got big long roads out there" Chris Rea. Cheers. D.
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:58 AM   #42
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Yes it is very odd placement, I rode more yesterday, and just practice using it more, by the way for all you guys and gals in snow country, 6 miles from Rio Grande was 73 degrees sunny and clear skies on my ride yesterday. Has not been below 40 since first week of January. "Texas theyve got big long roads out there" Chris Rea. Cheers. D.
Where in Texas? I get down to the border fairly often.

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Old 02-12-2013, 02:24 PM   #43
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Hey Jim, I live in Comstock, its about 30 miles west of Del Rio on hwy 90. Not much around here but Border Patrol Vehicles and 18 wheelers. I do ride the GSA to Del Rio about once a week. What area do you venture to? D.
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:22 PM   #44
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After 200,000 miles on BMW style switch gear, it's completely automatic and easy. I also have a Suzuki dualsport, so have to switch back and forth between BMW style and standard style switch gear. Aint no big deal, but I do prefer the BMW style as being easier to use day in and day out. At least for me anyway.
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:20 PM   #45
StuartV
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Originally Posted by VEGASGSA View Post
What frightens me is, obviously these folks are incapable of reaching a finger or two, out for the brake lever, or for that matter turning the blinker on...anything that requires use of the hand for anything but twisting the throttle. Thank god we haven't tossed in using a throttle lock..it sounds like several would have such uncontrolled throttle movement, we'd have to scrape them from the side of a mountain.

It's odd..I can ride down the road, cover and use the front brake..and just let my thumb hang there..hell, I use the o-ring throttle lock and have no problems rolling it up on the edge of the grip. I roll the throttle between my two small fingers and heel of my hand..my thumb isn't doing anything anyway..

Sorry guys..I can see you have a problem operating your motorcycle..I'm trying to understand..just don't get it.. I wish I had great advice for those who can't make it work...
I'm sorry you're so frightened.

I said this in an earlier post in this thread:

Quote:
My problem is not adjusting to the way the BMW signal switches work. It's that having to use my RIGHT hand to operate the right turn signal and the cancel button, while also modulating the throttle and brakes (and steering) is a design that is simply inferior to having a turn signal/ cancel switch like are standard on pretty much all modern Japanese bikes. Operating the clutch is an intermittent activity. Controlling the throttle is a continuous activity. It's easy to fit switch operation in between clutch operations so you're not trying to do them both with one hand at the same time. But, you can NEVER fit in turn signal or cancel operations with the right hand to a time when the right hand is doing nothing else.

It's not that you can't cancel the signal and work the throttle and brake all at the same time. It's just that it's harder to do it smoothly than using the left hand for all turn signal operations. And harder means it's less safe. It uses up more of your $1 worth of concentration. Not a problem MOST of the time. But, maximizing safety means eliminating issues, when you can, that only affect you even a very small part of the time.
If you don't understand that, maybe reading is NOT fundamental for you...

And since you have mastered doing 4 things simultaneously with your right hand, while I am having a problem operating my motorcycle, incapable of reaching a finger or two out to my brake lever, and lucky to not have been scraped off the side of a mountain by now, maybe you could give me a lesson some time? I'd ride halfway to meet you. As should be clear by now, I try to maximize safety, so maybe we could meet at a racetrack, since that's safer than public roads, and you could show me how it's done there?
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