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Old 02-12-2013, 06:37 PM   #46
JimVonBaden
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Originally Posted by DSTEVENS View Post
Hey Jim, I live in Comstock, its about 30 miles west of Del Rio on hwy 90. Not much around here but Border Patrol Vehicles and 18 wheelers. I do ride the GSA to Del Rio about once a week. What area do you venture to? D.
I've taught a few classes in Del Rio. Lived in Brownsville for a year, and have been there many times since. Also McAllen and the surrounding areas. You can guess where I go when there.

Jim
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:42 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by StuartV View Post
I'm sorry you're so frightened.

I said this in an earlier post in this thread:



If you don't understand that, maybe reading is NOT fundamental for you...

And since you have mastered doing 4 things simultaneously with your right hand, while I am having a problem operating my motorcycle, incapable of reaching a finger or two out to my brake lever, and lucky to not have been scraped off the side of a mountain by now, maybe you could give me a lesson some time? I'd ride halfway to meet you. As should be clear by now, I try to maximize safety, so maybe we could meet at a racetrack, since that's safer than public roads, and you could show me how it's done there?
Wow..butt hurt much?

I was sincere in saying..I wish I had advice to help...

I hardly think I can outride a pro GP racer..and never implied I could...

I don't have the problem of throttle control while using my thumb..sorry..hate me for it..just think it's interesting how many people do have problems..just never really thought about it..

Sorry if I hurt your feelings...
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:17 AM   #48
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Just because someone doesn't LIKE something does not mean they can't do it. Or that they have not figured it out.

Also, just because it works and people CAN figure it out does NOT mean is it optimal or the best way to do it.

Turn signals require 3 very simple functions. Left on, right on, and cancel either. The Harley system operates all 3 functions with 2 buttons and the SAME 2 finger movements keeping it comfortable and simple. The Asian bike world AMAZINGLY has figured out how do do ALL 3 of those functions with 1 switch and 1 finger...is a thumb a finger, I seem to remember something about "all thumbs are fingers but not all fingers are thumbs", anyway, doing something BETTER does not mean that something else will not work, but it is a better way to make it work...

Doing 3 simple functions with a left thumb when the left hand only has the clutch to regularly operate and the right hand has the throttle and the brake to operate already it only makes sense to move the TS to the left. BUT then in the case of BMW, not only do they put the right TS on the right hand, they have a completely separte cancel button that is in an awkward position for me. Pushing upwards to cancel is uncofortable to me...I CAN do it, I HAVE mastered doing it, i just don't LIKE doing and think everytime I do it, this is just dumb. YET I do it.

The Harley system is great to me even though it still has 2 buttons and put the 3rd thing to on the right hand...I like the way it operates witha simple push ON, the push again OFF, clean and simple, it also adds a 4th fuction of activating the hazard lights by pushing BOTH left and right simultaniously...again elimination a separate button...clean and simple.
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:39 AM   #49
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Kelly,

I think you missed the point. No one is saying that a preference for one or the other makes you a bad rider. They are saying the the inability to learn how to operate a system that is proven to work for most calls into question the dexterity of the rider who fails to master it.

Jim
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:46 PM   #50
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Post #6 and #39 vegasgsa makes it clear that he thinks people who can not figure out the BMW switch gear can not ride and maybe should not ride.

My point would be that I CAN ride and DO ride without issue on the BMW controls, but I still think they are stupidly designed and not efficient.
On my RT to dual sport conversion bike I am definately changing the entire controls to a dirt bike style set up like Baja Designs switches or similar.
The pushing upward on the horn and cancel is just off for me.
I personally prefer ANY other system I have ridden.
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:10 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by kellymac530 View Post
Post #6 and #39 vegasgsa makes it clear that he thinks people who can not figure out the BMW switch gear can not ride and maybe should not ride.

My point would be that I CAN ride and DO ride without issue on the BMW controls, but I still think they are stupidly designed and not efficient.
On my RT to dual sport conversion bike I am definately changing the entire controls to a dirt bike style set up like Baja Designs switches or similar.
The pushing upward on the horn and cancel is just off for me.
I personally prefer ANY other system I have ridden.
Hmmm..post 6 I suggest to a new rider..that..(most likely) he'll have it figured out..that it didn't take me, personally, long to figure out..nothing more...and it wasn't I, who was talking about a throttle on the left..etc..etc..

In my next post, after three pages of people saying they can't figure it out, I questioned, somewhat tounge in cheek, that if someone wasn't capable of operating the switches on the bike without (as one poster stated)having to look down at them, that a motorcycle may not be the machine for them..

I stand by that, if you need to look down at the bars, to turn on a signal, lights etc..you are gonna wind up on the asphalt. I think this is what JVB was alluding to..if you aren't comfortable..you will probably do the wrong thing at the wrong time..

I was actually playing with this on my commute tonight..I can brake, roll throttle on or off and run all the switches while negotiating traffic and turns with no problem..maybe my thumb works slightly differently..maybe it's longer or shorter..it's double jointed..I can bend it straight back..maybe that explains it..

I just don't want anyone to eat crap because they have to stare at the controls to work them..seems crazy to me..



If you got on a bike, and thought it was stupid, why would you continue with a purchase?
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Old 02-15-2013, 05:24 PM   #52
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because this post seems to be an issue for those questioning ones ability to push a button while riding, i thought i'd clarify my previous post. My exaggeration of almost crashing due to having to look at the controls while learning how to use them on the new bike was used to express the point that being someone who switched from riding another bike had to do just so. look for the button. So for a 15+year rider like myself or a new one, I could not see how this setup was simple to learn on, as not one but 3 locations of mussel memory were needed to operate the signals. 1 vs 3 just doesn't seem much better to me.
As to my ability to operate the bike, ill leave that judgment to all who who have or decide to go on a ride with me, and if you are one who has go ahead and rank my status for those questing anyone's ability based on a few words related to convince and simplicity of turn signals.
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Old 02-15-2013, 05:48 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by funinthesun View Post
because this post seems to be an issue for those questioning ones ability to push a button while riding, i thought i'd clarify my previous post. My exaggeration of almost crashing due to having to look at the controls while learning how to use them on the new bike was used to express the point that being someone who switched from riding another bike had to do just so. look for the button. So for a 15+year rider like myself or a new one, I could not see how this setup was simple to learn on, as not one but 3 locations of mussel memory were needed to operate the signals. 1 vs 3 just doesn't seem much better to me.
As to my ability to operate the bike, ill leave that judgment to all who who have or decide to go on a ride with me, and if you are one who has go ahead and rank my status for those questing anyone's ability based on a few words related to convince and simplicity of turn signals.
Sorry man, all we have on here is what you say. If you say you almost crashed becuase of the buttons, then what else are we supposed to think?

Jim
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Old 02-15-2013, 06:32 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
.2 KM moving. They won't cancel sitting still.

Jim
Holy cow, I've had a GS or GSA for the last 5 years and I never knew the turn signals cancelled themselves!
I've never had a problem cancelling them, though. The horn is a different story...I've never successfully used it without the left signal coming on; I just avoid it now.
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Old 02-15-2013, 06:53 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
Sorry man, all we have on here is what you say. If you say you almost crashed becuase of the buttons, then what else are we supposed to think?

Jim
no worries man, just wanted to make the point that was intened in hopes that my experince would aid a fellow inmate. as i belive that is the pourpose and reason we all post here. althpugh some may be here just to gripe and argue.

That being said I seem to have trouble expressing my points anyway, just ask my wife!
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:54 PM   #56
VEGASGSA
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I'm sorry if I offended anyone...it was not intentional....

If you bark..I bite..
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:35 PM   #57
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my problem is not adjusting to the way the bmw signal switches work. It's that having to use my right hand to operate the right turn signal and the cancel button, while also modulating the throttle and brakes (and steering) is a design that is simply inferior to having a turn signal/ cancel switch like are standard on pretty much all modern japanese bikes. Operating the clutch is an intermittent activity. Controlling the throttle is a continuous activity. It's easy to fit switch operation in between clutch operations so you're not trying to do them both with one hand at the same time. But, you can never fit in turn signal or cancel operations with the right hand to a time when the right hand is doing nothing else.

It's not that you can't cancel the signal and work the throttle and brake all at the same time. It's just that it's harder to do it smoothly than using the left hand for all turn signal operations. And harder means it's less safe. It uses up more of your $1 worth of concentration. Not a problem most of the time. But, maximizing safety means eliminating issues, when you can, that only affect you even a very small part of the time.
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:57 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by VEGASGSA View Post
Hmmm..post 6 I suggest to a new rider..that..(most likely) he'll have it figured out..that it didn't take me, personally, long to figure out..nothing more...and it wasn't I, who was talking about a throttle on the left..etc..etc..

In my next post, after three pages of people saying they can't figure it out, I questioned, somewhat tounge in cheek, that if someone wasn't capable of operating the switches on the bike without (as one poster stated)having to look down at them, that a motorcycle may not be the machine for them..

I stand by that, if you need to look down at the bars, to turn on a signal, lights etc..you are gonna wind up on the asphalt. I think this is what JVB was alluding to..if you aren't comfortable..you will probably do the wrong thing at the wrong time..

I was actually playing with this on my commute tonight..I can brake, roll throttle on or off and run all the switches while negotiating traffic and turns with no problem..maybe my thumb works slightly differently..maybe it's longer or shorter..it's double jointed..I can bend it straight back..maybe that explains it..

I just don't want anyone to eat crap because they have to stare at the controls to work them..seems crazy to me..



If you got on a bike, and thought it was stupid, why would you continue with a purchase?
That is a HUGE problem with the internet...no inflection and no tone of voice heard through brief typing. Personally I did not see anyone saying, as you state, "they can't figure it out", rather, just saying they don't like them and the figuring them out is awkeward. There is a difference. That is all that I am saying. They work, I know how to use them, I can use them I just don't like them.

As to why I would continue a purchase, I never had ridden an oil head, I bought mine online on ebay and rode it for the first time AFTER I purchased it. Even with that said, I likely would still have bought it even after riding it, assuming that I would get used to them like many things in life that we just need to get used to or adjust to. After 10k miles I still do not like them. Horn is poorly placed and odd. Cancel is similarly odd and poorly placed.

I am obviously NOT alone in feeling like this. Many others have chimed in that they do not like them either.

I can not "hear" your tongue in cheek online. All I can comment on is what I read. I read that you think if someone can not use the buttons on their BMW they should not ride. I was just saying that that is not true.

For me, I am ditching the entire BMW set up and going to a YZ450 MC, a G2 Ergonomics Domino throttle for a 2 stroke single cable, Not sure which but a standard dirtbike clutch perch and lever and dual sport conversion switch set. Soon it work right.
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Old 02-16-2013, 04:40 AM   #59
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Exactly. I am as "adjusted" as I'm going to get. "Adjusting" is not a problem for me. My street (sport)bike and race bike have reversed shift pattern (1 up, 5 down). My GS and KTM dirt bike have standard shift. I switch around between bikes all the time and have no problem shifting the right way for the bike I'm on.

My problem is not adjusting to the way the BMW signal switches work. It's that having to use my RIGHT hand to operate the right turn signal and the cancel button, while also modulating the throttle and brakes (and steering) is a design that is simply inferior to having a turn signal/ cancel switch like are standard on pretty much all modern Japanese bikes. Operating the clutch is an intermittent activity. Controlling the throttle is a continuous activity. It's easy to fit switch operation in between clutch operations so you're not trying to do them both with one hand at the same time. But, you can NEVER fit in turn signal or cancel operations with the right hand to a time when the right hand is doing nothing else.

It's not that you can't cancel the signal and work the throttle and brake all at the same time. It's just that it's harder to do it smoothly than using the left hand for all turn signal operations. And harder means it's less safe. It uses up more of your $1 worth of concentration. Not a problem MOST of the time. But, maximizing safety means eliminating issues, when you can, that only affect you even a very small part of the time.
Are you serious? I had many many japanese bikes before buying my k100 rs.This whole switchgear bleating is way overrated.I had no trouble with the swithgear.Granted i t prolly works a bit better in counties where we drive on the left,as when rolling on the throttle the thumb almost automatically engages the rh blinker blade to signal the overtake.I was used to it in the first weekend,I will use your rgument to say that rh trns are there fore safer.You dont have to worry about operating the turn signal while you might use the clutch.You can engage the blinker switch when blipping the throttle for the down shift
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