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Old 02-08-2013, 08:38 PM   #181
ken robert
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
"Now, if one has bad knees, a bad back/neck, poor core strength, etc., then obviously those people will have issues with certain riding positions...but that's the rider's issue, not the machine's"

I have all those things and a lot more. But I still like to ride. I have done 2 Iron Butt SS1000s on my 750 cruiser, easily and without pain. I may try again, that was a few years ago. I am quite sure there are a lot of riders in my condition, and it is good to see someone actually making a bike we can ride. Not that there aren't a lot of comfortable cruisers out there, but after a lifetime of cruisers, I'm kind of ready for a different look, but still want comfort. I switched from an upright bicycle to a recumbent many years ago, and it was 10 times better. I finally had to give that up when my knees just couldn't handle pedaling for any distance any more. In fact, I may be looking at a left knee replacement.

As far as soul, no Japanese bike made today has soul. Actually very few bikes made today have soul. It has been replaced with plastic and electronics. If you want soul, you will have to get a vintage bike.
I had vintage bikes when they were the state of the art motorcycles. Like my BSA twin carb Lightning. I heard the same shit about it not having "soul" 45 years ago. It always was and still remains righteous BS. Go for a ride and uplift your own soul.
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:49 PM   #182
Captain Yesterday
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What a disappointment, whatever happened to the honda's of the 70's, cb400, cb550, cb750, cbx, cx, turbo bikes, ect...Bikes with INNOVATION, now it's just soulless repackaged crap, how many bikes can we make with the same engine.

I suspect sales failure in 3, 2, 1

No wonder why euro bikes manufacturers are having record breaking quarters year after year.
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:52 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by mrbreeze View Post
you're right, everyone is different. I had the privilege of putting a bunch of miles on Trophy 900's and 1200's. Great bikes, but I didn't like the lean onto the handlebars. Most cruisers AND most luxury tourers put you bang upright over the seat. Goldwings and Electra Glides are favorites of the IBA crowd. A friend of mine did 1600 miles on his E-Glide a few years ago.

I am sure Honda knows much more about what most riders consider a comfortable ride. Unfortunately they are all "one size fits all" until the owner starts changing things around to better fit them. I'm thinking the CTX700 needs a floorboard kit.
As an ex flattracker and general loonie I still like to wring a bike out on corners,some forward lean is good for that,Im 55 but still ride singletrack at the best pace I can manage. The whole feet forward thing is as foreign as it gets for me on a bike,its just plain odd to ride around with a super low seat and my feet out in front.
Maybe some day but not yet. Honestly at 6' tall on my Trophy Im pretty close to sitting upright,just a few degrees of lean is fine for me on long trips. And it leans way over before anything hard drags,gets to the edge of the rear tire and is comfortable there.
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:53 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by ph0rk View Post
there is nothing better than vague meaningless terms like "soul" to describe a machine.
Might be meaningless to you, but I know it when I see it; i understand that my 03 Nighthawk was the product of a focus group looking to piece together a bike from the parts bins, and it had more soul than this maxi cruiser.
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:01 PM   #185
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Eek

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
The problem with most new bikes is that they are no longer really machines. They are a mass of plastic, emissions crap and computer circuits. Back in the '60s and earlier they really were machines. They were made of metal, and everything on them was mechanical except for the rudimentary ignition and lighting systems. My Genuine Stella is like that, that is why I love it so much. Despite being made in India, it still has soul. It is metal, and has absolutely nothing on it that it does not need. And it is beautiful. It's style is part of it''s design, not added on top with plastic panels. Vintage British bikes are like that, Sportsters are like that, other than on late models they are not all machine, they have electronic parts too, which kind of kills the "soul"

As for Honda going after new riders, that is not a bad idea if they intend to survive. Most of todays young people would choose an iPhone, iPad, iPod, or a MacBook over a motorcycle. Sad but true. But I see these bikes as going after older riders as well, riders who would otherwise be on cruisers. This gives them another option. The population is aging, and not nearly as many riders can tolerate the "sport" riding position. They might also bring back some riders who gave it up because they didn't like cruisers for some reason. I can't see this being anything but a "win" for Honda.

As for the "parts bin engineering" that is a great idea. Keep the proliferation of parts to a minimum. Maybe parts will be available longer. Triumph did it this way, with their modular engines. Ford has been doing it forever. Many parts that fit the early Mustangs also fit my '64 Fairlane. The entire drivetrain, steering, suspension, and brakes are the same, and have the same part numbers.

Where to start?


"Not really machines"?

"Despite being made in India, it still has soul."?

" Most of todays young people would choose an iPhone, iPad, iPod, or a MacBook over a motorcycle. Sad but true. "?

"The population is aging."?

"...didn't like cruisers for some reason."?

"I can't see this being anything but a "win" for Honda."?
.
.
.
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:06 PM   #186
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Have the focus group tack on another front wheel and call it a Can Am
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:15 PM   #187
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Looks like A Ducati Diavel to me.
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:45 PM   #188
JerryH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Yesterday View Post
What a disappointment, whatever happened to the honda's of the 70's, cb400, cb550, cb750, cbx, cx, turbo bikes, ect...Bikes with INNOVATION, now it's just soulless repackaged crap, how many bikes can we make with the same engine.

I suspect sales failure in 3, 2, 1

No wonder why euro bikes manufacturers are having record breaking quarters year after year.
I would love to see those bikes back, but it is not going to happen. What Honda is selling now is the "modern" version of those bikes. I had a 1975 CB500 Four. It was 10 times the bike these new CB500 twins are, and it had looks, sounded good, nice comfortable flat seat that actually flipped up on one side, full instruments, centerstand, comfortable riding position, basically all the good things the new models don't have.

I definitely believe machines can have soul. It comes from the designers. Guys like Fabio Taglioni at Ducati, Corradino D'Ascanio at Vespa, Ferdinando Innocenti (Lambretta) and Edward Turner at Triumph. Guys like them put their heart into their work, and what they created could rightfully be called art. Vincent and Brough Superior had tons of soul, and so did all vintage British bikes, BMWs, Bultacos, Maicos, Harleys and Indians. It wasn't until more modern times, when bikes were designed by committees and built out of plastic and computer parts that they lost it. Todays bikes have no more soul than a PC, meaning none. Neither does anything else new. They don't have any personality or character either. Just very efficient, dull boring transportation appliances. I can't think of ANY new bike that could be considered exciting. At least they can be reliable and comfortable. If you can't enjoy the bike itself, at least you can enjoy going somewhere on it. It's almost enough to make you give up motorcycles and get a convertible. My sisters Mazda Miata is a lot more fun than my Goldwing.
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Old 02-08-2013, 10:03 PM   #189
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In a top floor Honda Central a meeting is taking place. The chair of the meeting declares "PeopleSans, sales
could be better. We must compete with exciting motorcycles from Italy, Germany and England. What are we
to do ? A Harvard educated MBA stands, "I have an idea. Nobody is making Dull, Boring and perhaps Ugly
motorcycles and this is what we must do to fill this untapped market!!" The Chairman is impressed that
no one has thought of this before. Yes, this has for years worked for the Car and Lawnmower divisions so
it will surely work for us. We will make it so, and we will be showered in Cherry Blossoms.
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Old 02-08-2013, 10:22 PM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
I would love to see those bikes back, but it is not going to happen. What Honda is selling now is the "modern" version of those bikes. I had a 1975 CB500 Four. It was 10 times the bike these new CB500 twins are, and it had looks, sounded good, nice comfortable flat seat that actually flipped up on one side, full instruments, centerstand, comfortable riding position, basically all the good things the new models don't have.
Jerry, Seriously now. When was the last time you rode a 1975 CB500 Four in original condition back to back against a current CB500.

I get the feeling that it's just like the thing where rich people are labelled eccentric and poor people are labelled crazy for doing the same stuff.

For many years I heard about how this or that bike had soul or character but the bikes you lament didn't. I never heard the word soul applied to old Japanese motorbikes until they became unavailable old Japanese motorbikes.

Define soul for me without getting all vague.

Are you sure it wasn't the great marketing departments of years gone by that were the real innovators here.

For example, I often refer to old cars with rattles and squeaks and things you have to fiddle with to get to work properly as gaining "personality" as they age to the point where you could swear that a car was in a good mood that day or it was in a bad mood.

Are you sure that is not what you are talking about?
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Old 02-08-2013, 10:36 PM   #191
dirtdreamer50
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Definition of SOUL

1
: the immaterial essence, animating principle, or actuating cause of an individual life
2
a : the spiritual principle embodied in human beings, all rational and spiritual beings, or the universe
b capitalized Christian Science : god 1b
3
: a person's total self
4
a : an active or essential part
b : a moving spirit : leader
5
a : the moral and emotional nature of human beings
b : the quality that arouses emotion and sentiment


Looks like #5B is the definition that is used for motorcycles. Maybe #4A&B too, for some riders. Some may even think #1 is the real definition of motorcycle soul. Seems Webster may have wanted to be a motorcyclist, long before the invention of said vehicles...
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Old 02-08-2013, 11:10 PM   #192
Abu Sayeret
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As a new rider

I'm new to riding - what I would really like is a BMW R1200R or maybe the Honda CB1100 - but that CTX700N sure seems like a good bike to improve my skills on.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:04 AM   #193
RedRocket
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Yesterday View Post
What a disappointment, whatever happened to the honda's of the 70's, cb400, cb550, cb750, cbx, cx, turbo bikes, ect...Bikes with INNOVATION, now it's just soulless repackaged crap, how many bikes can we make with the same engine.

I suspect sales failure in 3, 2, 1

Honda lost their ass on half the bikes you mentioned.
Lean burning low maintenance, high mileage bikes are a piece of today's market beside Furys, Gold Wings, , CBR's, etc.
Sorry they didn't show up with your next bike but look at it this way, every fall for the past few years there has been a "what's Honda gonna come out with this year" thread, and typically it seemed like a Bonus if there were two new models. This year I think the total of new or refreshed model is around 10.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Abu Sayeret View Post
I'm new to riding - what I would really like is a BMW R1200R or maybe the Honda CB1100 - but that CTX700N sure seems like a good bike to improve my skills on.

Yes, it looks like a nice new rider bike. I think new riders feel more more confidence when they can easily flat foot it, and this bike will have a nice low center of gravity too.

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Old 02-09-2013, 12:11 AM   #194
GrahamD
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Originally Posted by dirtdreamer50 View Post


Looks like #5B is the definition that is used for motorcycles.
Well I must admit the old bikes I had did arouse a lot more emotion.

Usually fear, and dread, swearing and cussing and almost hate, almost tears as I looked at another hill before town as I pushed, that seemed so insignificant half an hour ago as I rode out. Panic as I wondered whether those old Dunlops would actually hold on. They often didn't. The feeling of dread as the reserve level kicked in around a corner cutting power. The realization that it was already on reserve and I had forgot to turn it back at the last stop.
Pain and anguish as I was continually being belted in the leg by that spark plug lead that didn't quite insulate well enough in the rain.

Now I can just ride and smile.

Looks like I've gone all soft eh?
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:30 AM   #195
mattness
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pegs too far forward for any real distance riding. +1 on no soul.
this bike wont work in the u.s. because you cant ride this with your harley buddies, and your sportbike buddies will leave you in the dust.

but youll see about one a year in a walmart parking lot somewhere
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