2014 Honda CTX700 Threadfest

[eakins]

for everyone bitching about the bike...don't buy one then!
geez. buy something else.

modular platforms (same base bike, many different models) are the way of the future. VW perfected it. KTM/Berg/Husky are going that way. Honda is doing it with the 700 layout & the 250 thumper. Expect more of it from Honda and from other mfgs.

the beauty is if this model doesn't suit you then buy one of the other variations.
this should stop the whiners. like the base bike concept but not the variation, then get another variation.

read this:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...5&postcount=58

[GrahamD]

Originally Posted by eakins

read this:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...5&postcount=58

This is nothing new. Somewhere down the line, excuse pun, the Japanese bike manufactures forgot about it OR more likely didn't have to worry about it until they had "niched" their way into extreme model complexity.

Might have been OK with a Yen at 325 to the Dollar and huge sales probably kept that at bay for a while.

Datsun for instance made 1600, 1800cc, 2000cc, 2400cc, 2600cc, 2800cc engines with as many shared components as possible in the 60's, 70's and eighties. In fact those engines (4's and sixes) survived for 20+ years.

They even used the same gearboxes across the range in many markets.

Lot's of common parts in each motor. It was great if you wanted to fix stuff.

I think maybe the 50% reduction on "big western bike sales" has forced their hand although the small eastern bike buyers seem to be pretty happy with few models and big volume. No problems with sales in that market.

Anyway my hope is that this not only leads to more economical transport, which was what bikes used to be before the "race bike wars" but hopefully parts prices will drop.

The bike industry sort of went the same way as sneakers. One decade they were cheap foot ware with a few models the next they were designer life style choices with technology designed to show off and 50 models per brand.

The pushbike industry is the same. No one rides pushbikes any more. They all seem to be in training for the next Tour de France and arguing whether $5000.00 is good value or not.

[bobobob]

http://www.fasterandfaster.net/2013/...-probably.html

[dirtdreamer50]

Originally Posted by eakins

for everyone bitching about the bike...don't buy one then!
geez. buy something else.

modular platforms (same base bike, many different models) are the way of the future. VW perfected it. KTM/Berg/Husky are going that way. Honda is doing it with the 700 layout & the 250 thumper. Expect more of it from Honda and from other mfgs.

the beauty is if this model doesn't suit you then buy one of the other variations.
this should stop the whiners. like the base bike concept but not the variation, then get another variation.

read this:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...5&postcount=58

This has been done for years. Chevy and Pontiacs, Fords and Mercurys, Chrysler, Dodge and Plymouths. Seems some divisions marketed the products better and all were used to better economies, as Pontiac, Mercury and Plymouth have all gone the way of the dodo bird.

Honda will continue to grow and deliver what they think the public wants, in spite of what nay sayers on this or any other forum may state. They do have their sh*t together. These new platform bike lines prove that.

[dirtdreamer50]

Originally Posted by bobobob

http://www.fasterandfaster.net/2013/...-probably.html

"Wow. Jaded much? Not everyone sees their bikes as weekend toys or sex objects. I understand liking high-performance motorcyles (I love them too) but some people want dependable, comfortable bikes they can ride every day. Then again, my only vehicle is a 400cc maxi-scooter whose integrated storage and full fairing allow me to ride year-round in all weather, so I'm not a "real biker" anyway."

A comment posted after the review. Seems not all of their readers go along with what faster and faster thinks. A common sense poster, I believe. tp

[Anteraan]

Originally Posted by mrbreeze

Doesn't this description fit the CTX700? The only difference is the ergos, and that is largely a matter of individual taste.

No, it doesn't. It fails heavily on the standard riding position and modern looks criteria. Both of these, I'll admit, are matters of individual taste, much like purchasing motorcycles in general. But the riding position is a HUGE issue, and I'll explain why:

If Honda thinks the CTX will pull people off of cruisers in significant numbers, then good luck to them.
If they think it will attract the new rider (who likely took his MSF course on a standard), good luck to them.
If they think this is a move-up bike for entry-level sportbike/standard riders (N250/N500/CBR250), good luck to them.

That's 0-3.

What large audience does that leave again? Move-up scooter riders? Perhaps. But even they have more of a standard-style riding position than the CTX does. That's where I feel this whole thing doesn't make much sense. Compare that to a NC-based sport-tourer (think miniature ST1300/Concours/FJR) that can fit a L size helmet in the "not a tank" (I know, I've done it); and you have a serious commuter that could be attractive to the last two groups mentioned above, along with people who are wanting to move down from the sport-tourers listed earlier in this extremely long sentence.

Just my $.02, which is $.02 more than you would pay for it.

[ph0rk]

Originally Posted by Anteraan

If they think it will attract the new rider (who likely took his MSF course on a standard), good luck to them.

The local non-HD riding class here used small displacement cruisers with rediculously low seats (25-27") and feet-foward ish controls. (Kawasaki EL125 and Suzuki GZ250).

The CTX bikes will feel similar to the bikes they trained on, or more similar than just about anything else, and don't look overly cruiser-ish for those that don't want that.

[RaY YreKa]

Originally Posted by dirtdreamer50

This has been done for years. Chevy and Pontiacs, Fords and Mercurys, Chrysler, Dodge and Plymouths. Seems some divisions marketed the products better and all were used to better economies, as Pontiac, Mercury and Plymouth have all gone the way of the dodo bird..

Please stop it.

The RotW has no idea WTF you are talking about, except that it's car talk.

[HondaFanatic]

Originally Posted by DOGSROOT

And a rousing conversation ensued...

Mission Accomplished.[/COLOR][/COLOR]


DN-01....

BMW F650CS...



People are expressing their opinions, providing insightful conversation.

Is it closed-minded because some of them disagree w/ you?


.

Who "disagreed" with me, dude? I've never once expressed an opinion, one way or another on how this bike is put together (other than saying the naked version was "friggin' beautiful" based on the 1st picture released). I'm not Hondas customer for this bike. Not even close. I've actually already paid for the 1st CB1100 my not-so local dealer gets in. But that doesn't make me any less excited to see a company try something different to bring new riders into the fold.

What is insightful about bashing a product that wasn't built for you to begin with? Ford guy "I hate Chevys!" Chevy guy "Why do you hate them?" Ford guy "Cause they suck!" Chevy guy "You ever owned one?" Ford guy "NO!" Chevy guy "You ever ridden in one?" Ford guy "HA! Are you crazy?" Chevy guy "You ever driven one?" Ford guy "Kill me first!" Chevy guy "Uh I don't understand. Why do you hate them again?" Ford guy "I've already explained this once CAUSE THEY SUCK!"
Where's all the insight the Ford guy has added to the conversation?

Sorry, I do think it's closed-minded to bash the hell out of a product that I've never touched, never ridden, never sat on, never seen in person, wasn't in the market for, is made by a company other than the one I normally buy from, doesn't compare to bikes that cost 1.5x or 2x as much, isn't made for the segment I like, or a 100 other possible reasons I've seen expressed in this thread.

[dirtdreamer50]

Originally Posted by RaY YreKa

Please stop it.

The RotW has no idea WTF you are talking about, except that it's car talk.

Maybe the RotW whatever the f**k, that is may learn something about how companies succeed and fail studying the auto industry.. we could use the motorcycle industry of the past 75 years that dwindled from hundreds down to a hand full of competitive companies.
Besides, I was discussing shared platforms mentioned in the previous post. VW was mentioned there, as one of the most successful, and I do believe it is part of the auto industry.

[ph0rk]

Ye gods, the colors!

Originally Posted by dirtdreamer50

Maybe the RotW whatever the f**k, that is may learn something about how companies succeed and fail studying the auto industry.. we could use the motorcycle industry of the past 75 years that dwindled from hundreds down to a hand full of competitive companies.
Besides, I was discussing shared platforms mentioned in the previous post. VW was mentioned there, as one of the most successful, and I do believe it is part of the auto industry.

Rest of the world - his point being that a more generic example would have been more instructive.

[mrbreeze]

Originally Posted by Anteraan

What large audience does that leave again? Move-up scooter riders? Perhaps. But even they have more of a standard-style riding position than the CTX does. That's where I feel this whole thing doesn't make much sense. Compare that to a NC-based sport-tourer (think miniature ST1300/Concours/FJR) that can fit a L size helmet in the "not a tank" (I know, I've done it); and you have a serious commuter that could be attractive to the last two groups mentioned above, along with people who are wanting to move down from the sport-tourers listed earlier in this extremely long sentence.

Just my $.02, which is $.02 more than you would pay for it.

I think you are saying that a bike with more sport touring ergos would be better - and I think that is correct, if Honda were trying to sell this to me or you - but they're not. I am a bit confused (concerned) about who they ARE trying to sell it too, just as you seem to be. I think they are trying to develop a new market. They see America as a great big country that is becoming more and more urban. They see America as an economy that is becoming more and more like the rest of the world - high gas prices, lower wages.... and figure people are going to be looking for inexpensive ways of getting around. I think they are expecting to bring in people who would otherwise never have considered two wheel transportation, unless it was a scooter. I don't know what the scooter market is doing, but if the local mega-dealer's showroom floor is any indication, scooters are in demand.

Honda has developed a motorcycle/scooter hybrid (the NC series, which includes the CTX) to take advantage of what may be a developing trend. They may be ahead of the curve. Or they may have missed a turn and be more lost than last year's Easter Egg. I hope they know what they are doing. I hope they bring in a whole bunch of new motorcyclists. The NC first salvo is a hit - the NC700X. The next salvo is the CTX700. New riders almost always want to be able to get both feet on the ground. Low seat heights appeal to them, which is why so many of them start out on small cruisers. They aren't thinking of their two wheeler as a long distance touring bike. They just want to ride it to school or to work, so the feet forward pegs are not a problem either. As far as performance, well if you;re comparing it to a 50cc Vespa or a 1994 Geo, the CTX will kick butt!

[ph0rk]

Originally Posted by mrbreeze

I don't know what the scooter market is doing, but if the local mega-dealer's showroom floor is any indication, scooters are in demand.

The number of scooters around town and campus has quintupled in the last five or six years. There are easily twice as many scooters as motorbikes on campus on any given day, and the ratio is tilted even more heavily in favor of scooters on bad weather days.

[RaY YreKa]

Originally Posted by dirtdreamer50

Maybe the RotW whatever the f**k, that is may learn something about how companies succeed and fail studying the auto industry.. .

Excellent.

Well done.

Ride the World.

You can buy stickers that say that, from this forum.

[eakins]

Originally Posted by dirtdreamer50

This has been done for years. Chevy and Pontiacs, Fords and Mercurys, Chrysler, Dodge and Plymouths. Seems some divisions marketed the products better and all were used to better economies, as Pontiac, Mercury and Plymouth have all gone the way of the dodo bird.

Honda will continue to grow and deliver what they think the public wants, in spite of what nay sayers on this or any other forum may state. They do have their sh*t together. These new platform bike lines prove that.

the people who know supply chain stuff say what VW is doing is truly unique.
please read the article before you comment.

http://autos.yahoo.com/news/has-volk...85.html?page=1


they are are doing platform engineering where front and back pieces and skins change per model (2 door vrs 4 door, different roof lines etc, but the underpinning ares the same.

GM & Chrysler just did badge engineering. add a new badge and a new grill but it's the exact same car so no specialization per market and need. and a cheap way to do it.

Honda is doing platform engineering with the 700 chassis and so will KTM with it's 2 other brands.

As for Honda they are in the business to sell alot of vehicles worldwide. They are doing that, but you don't like what they are selling to you.

Trust me, i'm no huge Honda fan as of late, but they are innovating outside the box and producing products that sell and priced aggressively.