ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Road warriors
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-12-2013, 01:54 PM   #376
eakins
Butler Maps
 
eakins's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2002
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado
Oddometer: 17,528
for everyone bitching about the bike...don't buy one then!
geez. buy something else.

modular platforms (same base bike, many different models) are the way of the future. VW perfected it. KTM/Berg/Husky are going that way. Honda is doing it with the 700 layout & the 250 thumper. Expect more of it from Honda and from other mfgs.

the beauty is if this model doesn't suit you then buy one of the other variations.
this should stop the whiners. like the base bike concept but not the variation, then get another variation.

read this:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...5&postcount=58
__________________
Butler Maps - motorcycle maps for riders by riders -
Alaska
AZ map COBDR AZBDR IDBDR South East map
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=598717
Butler Maps website:
http://www.butlermaps.com
eakins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 02:24 PM   #377
GrahamD
Beastly Adventurer
 
GrahamD's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: Blue Mnts Ozstralia
Oddometer: 5,007
Quote:
Originally Posted by eakins View Post
This is nothing new. Somewhere down the line, excuse pun, the Japanese bike manufactures forgot about it OR more likely didn't have to worry about it until they had "niched" their way into extreme model complexity.

Might have been OK with a Yen at 325 to the Dollar and huge sales probably kept that at bay for a while.

Datsun for instance made 1600, 1800cc, 2000cc, 2400cc, 2600cc, 2800cc engines with as many shared components as possible in the 60's, 70's and eighties. In fact those engines (4's and sixes) survived for 20+ years.

They even used the same gearboxes across the range in many markets.

Lot's of common parts in each motor. It was great if you wanted to fix stuff.

I think maybe the 50% reduction on "big western bike sales" has forced their hand although the small eastern bike buyers seem to be pretty happy with few models and big volume. No problems with sales in that market.

Anyway my hope is that this not only leads to more economical transport, which was what bikes used to be before the "race bike wars" but hopefully parts prices will drop.

The bike industry sort of went the same way as sneakers. One decade they were cheap foot ware with a few models the next they were designer life style choices with technology designed to show off and 50 models per brand.

The pushbike industry is the same. No one rides pushbikes any more. They all seem to be in training for the next Tour de France and arguing whether $5000.00 is good value or not.
__________________
"It's better to ride a boring bike than push an interesting one" ... Canuman

"I just may as well admit that my other bikes are toast. I don't ride them. Plain and simple. I didn't want this. It wasn't the plan." - snakebitten
GrahamD is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 02:36 PM   #378
bobobob
badbadbad
 
bobobob's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: On a hill
Oddometer: 4,838


http://www.fasterandfaster.net/2013/...-probably.html
__________________
.

It is just a bunch of inner tubes Roy . . . - Cannonshot
Growing old is compulsory - growing up is optional. - Haroon
bobobob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 02:37 PM   #379
dirtdreamer50
long time rider
 
dirtdreamer50's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2010
Location: texas coast
Oddometer: 1,027
Quote:
Originally Posted by eakins View Post
for everyone bitching about the bike...don't buy one then!
geez. buy something else.

modular platforms (same base bike, many different models) are the way of the future. VW perfected it. KTM/Berg/Husky are going that way. Honda is doing it with the 700 layout & the 250 thumper. Expect more of it from Honda and from other mfgs.

the beauty is if this model doesn't suit you then buy one of the other variations.
this should stop the whiners. like the base bike concept but not the variation, then get another variation.

read this:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...5&postcount=58
This has been done for years. Chevy and Pontiacs, Fords and Mercurys, Chrysler, Dodge and Plymouths. Seems some divisions marketed the products better and all were used to better economies, as Pontiac, Mercury and Plymouth have all gone the way of the dodo bird.

Honda will continue to grow and deliver what they think the public wants, in spite of what nay sayers on this or any other forum may state. They do have their sh*t together. These new platform bike lines prove that.
dirtdreamer50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 02:44 PM   #380
dirtdreamer50
long time rider
 
dirtdreamer50's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2010
Location: texas coast
Oddometer: 1,027
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobobob View Post
"Wow. Jaded much? Not everyone sees their bikes as weekend toys or sex objects. I understand liking high-performance motorcyles (I love them too) but some people want dependable, comfortable bikes they can ride every day. Then again, my only vehicle is a 400cc maxi-scooter whose integrated storage and full fairing allow me to ride year-round in all weather, so I'm not a "real biker" anyway."

A comment posted after the review. Seems not all of their readers go along with what faster and faster thinks. A common sense poster, I believe. tp
dirtdreamer50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 02:48 PM   #381
Anteraan
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jun 2012
Oddometer: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbreeze View Post
Doesn't this description fit the CTX700? The only difference is the ergos, and that is largely a matter of individual taste.
No, it doesn't. It fails heavily on the standard riding position and modern looks criteria. Both of these, I'll admit, are matters of individual taste, much like purchasing motorcycles in general. But the riding position is a HUGE issue, and I'll explain why:

If Honda thinks the CTX will pull people off of cruisers in significant numbers, then good luck to them.
If they think it will attract the new rider (who likely took his MSF course on a standard), good luck to them.
If they think this is a move-up bike for entry-level sportbike/standard riders (N250/N500/CBR250), good luck to them.

That's 0-3.

What large audience does that leave again? Move-up scooter riders? Perhaps. But even they have more of a standard-style riding position than the CTX does. That's where I feel this whole thing doesn't make much sense. Compare that to a NC-based sport-tourer (think miniature ST1300/Concours/FJR) that can fit a L size helmet in the "not a tank" (I know, I've done it); and you have a serious commuter that could be attractive to the last two groups mentioned above, along with people who are wanting to move down from the sport-tourers listed earlier in this extremely long sentence.

Just my $.02, which is $.02 more than you would pay for it.
Anteraan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 02:56 PM   #382
ph0rk
Doesn't Care
 
ph0rk's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Oaktown
Oddometer: 2,045
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anteraan View Post
If they think it will attract the new rider (who likely took his MSF course on a standard), good luck to them.
The local non-HD riding class here used small displacement cruisers with rediculously low seats (25-27") and feet-foward ish controls. (Kawasaki EL125 and Suzuki GZ250).

The CTX bikes will feel similar to the bikes they trained on, or more similar than just about anything else, and don't look overly cruiser-ish for those that don't want that.
__________________
--Semantics are everything.
ph0rk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 03:18 PM   #383
RaY YreKa
I Am the Mayor
 
RaY YreKa's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: YreKa BaKery
Oddometer: 16,131
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtdreamer50 View Post
This has been done for years. Chevy and Pontiacs, Fords and Mercurys, Chrysler, Dodge and Plymouths. Seems some divisions marketed the products better and all were used to better economies, as Pontiac, Mercury and Plymouth have all gone the way of the dodo bird..
Please stop it.

The RotW has no idea WTF you are talking about, except that it's car talk.
__________________
IBA #40578

shine on, you crazy emo diamond
RaY YreKa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 03:20 PM   #384
HondaFanatic OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
HondaFanatic's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: Georgia
Oddometer: 393
Quote:
Originally Posted by DOGSROOT View Post

And a rousing conversation ensued...

Mission Accomplished.[/COLOR][/COLOR]


DN-01....

BMW F650CS...



People are expressing their opinions, providing insightful conversation.

Is it closed-minded because some of them disagree w/ you?



.
Who "disagreed" with me, dude? I've never once expressed an opinion, one way or another on how this bike is put together (other than saying the naked version was "friggin' beautiful" based on the 1st picture released). I'm not Hondas customer for this bike. Not even close. I've actually already paid for the 1st CB1100 my not-so local dealer gets in. But that doesn't make me any less excited to see a company try something different to bring new riders into the fold.

What is insightful about bashing a product that wasn't built for you to begin with? Ford guy "I hate Chevys!" Chevy guy "Why do you hate them?" Ford guy "Cause they suck!" Chevy guy "You ever owned one?" Ford guy "NO!" Chevy guy "You ever ridden in one?" Ford guy "HA! Are you crazy?" Chevy guy "You ever driven one?" Ford guy "Kill me first!" Chevy guy "Uh I don't understand. Why do you hate them again?" Ford guy "I've already explained this once CAUSE THEY SUCK!"
Where's all the insight the Ford guy has added to the conversation?

Sorry, I do think it's closed-minded to bash the hell out of a product that I've never touched, never ridden, never sat on, never seen in person, wasn't in the market for, is made by a company other than the one I normally buy from, doesn't compare to bikes that cost 1.5x or 2x as much, isn't made for the segment I like, or a 100 other possible reasons I've seen expressed in this thread.
HondaFanatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 03:27 PM   #385
dirtdreamer50
long time rider
 
dirtdreamer50's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2010
Location: texas coast
Oddometer: 1,027
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaY YreKa View Post
Please stop it.

The RotW has no idea WTF you are talking about, except that it's car talk.
Maybe the RotW whatever the f**k, that is may learn something about how companies succeed and fail studying the auto industry.. we could use the motorcycle industry of the past 75 years that dwindled from hundreds down to a hand full of competitive companies.
Besides, I was discussing shared platforms mentioned in the previous post. VW was mentioned there, as one of the most successful, and I do believe it is part of the auto industry.
dirtdreamer50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 03:28 PM   #386
ph0rk
Doesn't Care
 
ph0rk's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Oaktown
Oddometer: 2,045
Ye gods, the colors!



Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtdreamer50 View Post
Maybe the RotW whatever the f**k, that is may learn something about how companies succeed and fail studying the auto industry.. we could use the motorcycle industry of the past 75 years that dwindled from hundreds down to a hand full of competitive companies.
Besides, I was discussing shared platforms mentioned in the previous post. VW was mentioned there, as one of the most successful, and I do believe it is part of the auto industry.
Rest of the world - his point being that a more generic example would have been more instructive.
__________________
--Semantics are everything.
ph0rk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 03:32 PM   #387
mrbreeze
Beastly Adventurer
 
mrbreeze's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: God's Country
Oddometer: 8,025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anteraan View Post
What large audience does that leave again? Move-up scooter riders? Perhaps. But even they have more of a standard-style riding position than the CTX does. That's where I feel this whole thing doesn't make much sense. Compare that to a NC-based sport-tourer (think miniature ST1300/Concours/FJR) that can fit a L size helmet in the "not a tank" (I know, I've done it); and you have a serious commuter that could be attractive to the last two groups mentioned above, along with people who are wanting to move down from the sport-tourers listed earlier in this extremely long sentence.

Just my $.02, which is $.02 more than you would pay for it.

I think you are saying that a bike with more sport touring ergos would be better - and I think that is correct, if Honda were trying to sell this to me or you - but they're not. I am a bit confused (concerned) about who they ARE trying to sell it too, just as you seem to be. I think they are trying to develop a new market. They see America as a great big country that is becoming more and more urban. They see America as an economy that is becoming more and more like the rest of the world - high gas prices, lower wages.... and figure people are going to be looking for inexpensive ways of getting around. I think they are expecting to bring in people who would otherwise never have considered two wheel transportation, unless it was a scooter. I don't know what the scooter market is doing, but if the local mega-dealer's showroom floor is any indication, scooters are in demand.

Honda has developed a motorcycle/scooter hybrid (the NC series, which includes the CTX) to take advantage of what may be a developing trend. They may be ahead of the curve. Or they may have missed a turn and be more lost than last year's Easter Egg. I hope they know what they are doing. I hope they bring in a whole bunch of new motorcyclists. The NC first salvo is a hit - the NC700X. The next salvo is the CTX700. New riders almost always want to be able to get both feet on the ground. Low seat heights appeal to them, which is why so many of them start out on small cruisers. They aren't thinking of their two wheeler as a long distance touring bike. They just want to ride it to school or to work, so the feet forward pegs are not a problem either. As far as performance, well if you;re comparing it to a 50cc Vespa or a 1994 Geo, the CTX will kick butt!
__________________
2013 Suzuki DL650 Adventure

Travels with Maw Maw
mrbreeze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 03:40 PM   #388
ph0rk
Doesn't Care
 
ph0rk's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Oaktown
Oddometer: 2,045
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbreeze View Post
I don't know what the scooter market is doing, but if the local mega-dealer's showroom floor is any indication, scooters are in demand.
The number of scooters around town and campus has quintupled in the last five or six years. There are easily twice as many scooters as motorbikes on campus on any given day, and the ratio is tilted even more heavily in favor of scooters on bad weather days.
__________________
--Semantics are everything.
ph0rk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 04:08 PM   #389
RaY YreKa
I Am the Mayor
 
RaY YreKa's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: YreKa BaKery
Oddometer: 16,131
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtdreamer50 View Post
Maybe the RotW whatever the f**k, that is may learn something about how companies succeed and fail studying the auto industry.. .
Excellent.

Well done.

Ride the World.

You can buy stickers that say that, from this forum.
__________________
IBA #40578

shine on, you crazy emo diamond
RaY YreKa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 04:20 PM   #390
eakins
Butler Maps
 
eakins's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2002
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado
Oddometer: 17,528
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtdreamer50 View Post
This has been done for years. Chevy and Pontiacs, Fords and Mercurys, Chrysler, Dodge and Plymouths. Seems some divisions marketed the products better and all were used to better economies, as Pontiac, Mercury and Plymouth have all gone the way of the dodo bird.

Honda will continue to grow and deliver what they think the public wants, in spite of what nay sayers on this or any other forum may state. They do have their sh*t together. These new platform bike lines prove that.
the people who know supply chain stuff say what VW is doing is truly unique.
please read the article before you comment.

http://autos.yahoo.com/news/has-volk...85.html?page=1


they are are doing platform engineering where front and back pieces and skins change per model (2 door vrs 4 door, different roof lines etc, but the underpinning ares the same.

GM & Chrysler just did badge engineering. add a new badge and a new grill but it's the exact same car so no specialization per market and need. and a cheap way to do it.

Honda is doing platform engineering with the 700 chassis and so will KTM with it's 2 other brands.

As for Honda they are in the business to sell alot of vehicles worldwide. They are doing that, but you don't like what they are selling to you.

Trust me, i'm no huge Honda fan as of late, but they are innovating outside the box and producing products that sell and priced aggressively.
__________________
Butler Maps - motorcycle maps for riders by riders -
Alaska
AZ map COBDR AZBDR IDBDR South East map
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=598717
Butler Maps website:
http://www.butlermaps.com

eakins screwed with this post 02-12-2013 at 04:31 PM
eakins is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 02:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014