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Old 03-22-2013, 12:54 PM   #91
trixterNorCal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DestinationUnknown View Post
It's nice that it is an active discussion in California for you guys. Even if it was explicity defined and legal where I live, people would still react with anger and intent to hit our asses here in the South. Ole Bobby Joe Ray in his PU truck would make a hood ornament out of a motorcyclist, especially 'one of dem jap bikes'.
They may react with anger however that would be illegal even under existing law. If they are going to do that because of lane splitting they are likely going to do it for a variety of other reasons as well which means it is unlikely that much would change.

With that said here are some lane splitting pseudo-facts (because the studies are not specifically suited to discern this in this place at this time they are not absolutes but can be convincingly presented as such).

"There is evidence (Hurt, 1981) that traveling between lanes of stopped or slow-moving cars (i.e., lane splitting) on multiple-lane roads (such as interstate highways) slightly reduces crash frequency compared with staying within the lane and moving with other traffic." (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration)

if 10 percent of all private cars were replaced by motorcycles in the traffic flow of the test area, total time losses for all vehicles decreased by 40 percent and total emissions reduced by 6 percent (1 percent from the different traffic composition of more emission-reduced motorcycles and 5 percent from avoided traffic congestion). A 25 percent modal shift from cars to motorcycles was found to eliminate congestion entirely. (Belgian study)

Its safer for riders, it is better for cagers, its more green, less fuel is consumed which means lower prices at the pump. Roads do not have to be widened as frequently due to lower congestion which means lower taxes and money can be spent on surfacing them instead of widening them. Road rage should subside because of less congestion as well.

Remember most of the world except 49 US states and the odd country elsewhere splitting is perfectly legal, everyone knows it is legal so they dont seem to freak out when people do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SF_Hooligan View Post
Just a suggestion, feel free to ignore.

Because you have a site dedicated to this which does not appear to have such information perhaps you could have a section dedicated to the proposed, pending and failed measures as well as petitions. This may help garner support for it in those areas and the more places that do it, the more common it becomes the less people are going to freak out over it.

Take advantage of the CA push to publicize that it is legal and their PSAs as well, education is key especially in light of the fact that over 50% of CA drivers do not know it is legal. That may change in the future with the recent changes to the CA DMV handbooks for 2013 as well. Perhaps a PSA/educational section on your page that has embedded videos that list the various PSAs and other things that talk about it perhaps like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNGD9AAIfFU or something more than just eye candy. :)


Washington and Florida have petitions to allow it.
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Old 03-22-2013, 01:41 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by trixterNorCal View Post
..."a section dedicated to the proposed, pending and failed measures as well as petitions"...
..."Take advantage of the CA push to publicize that it is legal and their PSAs"...
Good ideas; why not start your own website? More publicity and sources for information can't hurt.


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Originally Posted by trixterNorCal View Post
..."over 50% of CA drivers do not know it is legal"...
"The OTS survey showed that only 53 percent of vehicle drivers knew that lane splitting is legal in California."
http://www.ots.ca.gov/Media_and_Research/Press_Room/2012/doc/2012_Motorcycle_Survey_and_Safety_Month.pdf"
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=16


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Originally Posted by trixterNorCal View Post
..."recent changes to the CA DMV handbooks for 2013"...
"...the Motorcycle Handbook had been updated... The handbook now says, “Lane splitting should not be performed by inexperienced riders,” and gives several safety tips echoing the CHP guidelines but never acknowledging that the practice is legal.

That’s not a rousing endorsement of the finding in some recent research by accident analyst James V. Ouellet concluding that it’s safer for a motorcyclist to split lanes on the freeway than not. Ouellet concedes that his research is not definitive, owing to the age and small size of his data, which were collected in the 1970s and consist of only 900 accidents.

A more robust study is underway at UC Berkeley’s Safe Transportation Research & Education Center. The CHP is working with Research Epidemiologist Tom Rice to document the circumstances of every motorcycle accident it investigates over a year. The data collection is almost done. Rice said he expects to have findings by summer or fall that may once and for all answer the question, “Is lane-splitting safe?”

Meanwhile, anyone dropping into a DMV office for the next few months to pick up the official California Motorcycle Handbook will still get the old story. The 2013 version of the handbook with the new language is expected to be available in April."
http://www.latimes.com/business/auto...tory?track=rss
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...&postcount=103
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Old 03-22-2013, 03:44 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trixterNorCal View Post
Just a suggestion, feel free to ignore.

Because you have a site dedicated to this which does not appear to have such information perhaps you could have a section dedicated to the proposed, pending and failed measures as well as petitions. This may help garner support for it in those areas and the more places that do it, the more common it becomes the less people are going to freak out over it.

Take advantage of the CA push to publicize that it is legal and their PSAs as well, education is key especially in light of the fact that over 50% of CA drivers do not know it is legal. That may change in the future with the recent changes to the CA DMV handbooks for 2013 as well. Perhaps a PSA/educational section on your page that has embedded videos that list the various PSAs and other things that talk about it perhaps like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNGD9AAIfFU or something more than just eye candy. :).
Thanks for your feedback. The website does have such information. I'm assuming you've been to it since you said that, but the second item in the top nav is "Lane Splitting In The News"and the Nevada bill story is there under recent news. I didn't link to that - but instead to the post I made here about it, which does link to it - because I'm trying not to be too much of a linkwhore.

Next over in the top nav is resources, which contains "Where else is lane splitting legal?". That page is very much a work in progress, but a few states have the information you're asking for. Click on OR, for example - there's a summary and a link to all stories for OR. The NV stuff is there too, of course.

I'm sort of surprised you used the word eye candy as there's almost no visual design to the site other than the road sign and the sticker design. It's not exactly pretty.

A bit more about the site, since you seem interested - I launched it in January with a simple mission - to distribute stickers with the URL to help with awareness of the new CHP guidelines. I did a run of several thousand stickers which were distributed to bike shops around the Bay Area and central CA with the help of CityBike magazine and other riders. The idea was that the URL would tell the story of lane splitting being legal whether someone actually went to the site or not. If a driver does remember the URL and goes to the site, the home page serves as a PSA about the CHP guidelines. There's a fair amount of additional information available but exploring the navigation. I've been working on making it a general resource as well - I'm corresponding with folks in other states, talking to politicians when they'll talk to me, talking to MROs, talking to folks working on the issue here in CA.

I have mixed feelings about reporting on change.org petitions with low signature counts. The WA petition was reported on the site back in February and shows up on the link from the state of WA on the map in the "Where Else Is Lane Splitting Legal" page. The FL petition isn't even at 200 signatures - and since my primary focus is awareness in CA, it's not a priority to report on that. Also, anyone can start a petition on Change.org, and we already know riders in lots of places would love to be able to split. When a petition reaches critical mass and there's real talk of changing laws - that's actual news.

There's lots of other stuff in the works - shooting some video and creating versions for both drivers (awareness) and riders (tips/how-tos, etc), new sticker designs and another run of free stickers to shops/clubs/events/etc, more research and content on the site, more talking with folks about the issues, continuing to grow the Facebook page for discussion and engagement, and so on... but what you're proposing is a tremendous amount of work and will take some time. I'm doing this essentially on my own and I have a job, family, like to actually ride my motorcycle now and then (besides commuting)... you know how it goes. It's a big focus for me and I'm very committed, but I'm only really only able to put a max of ten hours a week into it, and between research, writing, messing with site code, managing the Facebook page and discussions and occasional meetings with folks about the issues, I'm about tapped out. I only want definitive, correct information on the site - not bullshit - and researching, verifying and posting can be a slow process. For example, when SB 350 was supposedly put on hold but also actually moved into committee, I spent a bunch of time on the phone and emailing folks chasing down real information so I wouldn't post wrong information like the AMA did and then subsequently pulled down. I'm also primarily concerned with CA, although I'm starting to do more with other states too and I think that's a natural progression for the site and my efforts.

I take feedback on the site and ideas to heart - I really do, and I incorporate ideas and feedback where I think it makes sense and when I can. I appreciate where you're coming from and have big goals for the site - it sounds like we're thinking about the same stuff. Give me a little time.

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Old 03-22-2013, 06:33 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by SF_Hooligan View Post
Thanks for your feedback. The website does have such information. I'm assuming you've been to it since you said that, but the second item in the top nav is "Lane Splitting In The News"and the Nevada bill story is there under recent news. I didn't link to that - but instead to the post I made here about it, which does link to it - because I'm trying not to be too much of a linkwhore.

Next over in the top nav is resources, which contains "Where else is lane splitting legal?". That page is very much a work in progress, but a few states have the information you're asking for. Click on OR, for example - there's a summary and a link to all stories for OR. The NV stuff is there too, of course.

I'm sort of surprised you used the word eye candy as there's almost no visual design to the site other than the road sign and the sticker design. It's not exactly pretty.

A bit more about the site, since you seem interested - I launched it in January with a simple mission - to distribute stickers with the URL to help with awareness of the new CHP guidelines. I did a run of several thousand stickers which were distributed to bike shops around the Bay Area and central CA with the help of CityBike magazine and other riders. The idea was that the URL would tell the story of lane splitting being legal whether someone actually went to the site or not. If a driver does remember the URL and goes to the site, the home page serves as a PSA about the CHP guidelines. There's a fair amount of additional information available but exploring the navigation. I've been working on making it a general resource as well - I'm corresponding with folks in other states, talking to politicians when they'll talk to me, talking to MROs, talking to folks working on the issue here in CA.

I have mixed feelings about reporting on change.org petitions with low signature counts. The WA petition was reported on the site back in February and shows up on the link from the state of WA on the map in the "Where Else Is Lane Splitting Legal" page. The FL petition isn't even at 200 signatures - and since my primary focus is awareness in CA, it's not a priority to report on that. Also, anyone can start a petition on Change.org, and we already know riders in lots of places would love to be able to split. When a petition reaches critical mass and there's real talk of changing laws - that's actual news.

There's lots of other stuff in the works - shooting some video and creating versions for both drivers (awareness) and riders (tips/how-tos, etc), new sticker designs and another run of free stickers to shops/clubs/events/etc, more research and content on the site, more talking with folks about the issues, continuing to grow the Facebook page for discussion and engagement, and so on... but what you're proposing is a tremendous amount of work and will take some time. I'm doing this essentially on my own and I have a job, family, like to actually ride my motorcycle now and then (besides commuting)... you know how it goes. It's a big focus for me and I'm very committed, but I'm only really only able to put a max of ten hours a week into it, and between research, writing, messing with site code, managing the Facebook page and discussions and occasional meetings with folks about the issues, I'm about tapped out. I only want definitive, correct information on the site - not bullshit - and researching, verifying and posting can be a slow process. For example, when SB 350 was supposedly put on hold but also actually moved into committee, I spent a bunch of time on the phone and emailing folks chasing down real information so I wouldn't post wrong information like the AMA did and then subsequently pulled down. I'm also primarily concerned with CA, although I'm starting to do more with other states too and I think that's a natural progression for the site and my efforts.

I take feedback on the site and ideas to heart - I really do, and I incorporate ideas and feedback where I think it makes sense and when I can. I appreciate where you're coming from and have big goals for the site - it sounds like we're thinking about the same stuff. Give me a little time.
Did you distribute any stickers to bike shops in Sacramento? I'd like to encourage them to make them available and be supportive. No reason to distribute the stickers if they're going to sit behind a counter getting dusty.
Thanks for your efforts with the website. I have directed a few non-motorcyclists to it. Haven't gotten any feed back from them one way or another.
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Old 03-22-2013, 06:51 PM   #95
K. L. Rocket
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Originally Posted by SF_Hooligan View Post
...I'm trying not to be too much of a linkwhore...
It can be a damned if you do/don't situation, so just keep doing what you think is reasonable. You're doing fine.

I haven't seen your stickers in the North Bay yet, where can we find them here?
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Old 03-22-2013, 06:53 PM   #96
trixterNorCal
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Originally Posted by SF_Hooligan View Post
Thanks for your feedback. The website does have such information.
I must have missed that.

Quote:
I'm sort of surprised you used the word eye candy as there's almost no visual design to the site other than the road sign and the sticker design. It's not exactly pretty.
What I meant by eye candy was in relation to videos. For example Moscow Red Devil on his R1 is eyecandy lane splitting while the video I linked or the CHP PSAs are not so much.

Quote:
I have mixed feelings about reporting on change.org petitions with low signature counts.
Personally I dont think online petitions work at all since signatures have to be verified everywhere I know of. Petitions should be more of a last resort than a first, it is far easier to get a law passed if a politician sponsors the bill and the key to that is to get people who are local to get involved. So my thought was more just to create a breeding ground and let them go to work. :)
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Old 03-22-2013, 07:05 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by mike54 View Post
Did you distribute any stickers to bike shops in Sacramento? I'd like to encourage them to make them available and be supportive. No reason to distribute the stickers if they're going to sit behind a counter getting dusty.
Thanks for your efforts with the website. I have directed a few non-motorcyclists to it. Haven't gotten any feed back from them one way or another.
Thanks! Some made their way up to Sac, but not many. I'm starting to run low-ish of this run but have thought of running some up there myself. I go up that way just about every weekend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by K. L. Rocket View Post
It can be a damned if you do/don't situation, so just keep doing what you think is reasonable. You're doing fine.

I haven't seen your stickers in the North Bay yet, where can we find them here?
They were distributed everywhere CityBike delivers the mag - should have been some up there. This was with the March issue. But I've heard from everyone I've talked to that they went super fast. We're (my wife does the graphics) working on some updated designs that we think will get the point across more effectively, and we're probably going to need to do a bigger run next time to get more coverage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by trixterNorCal View Post
I must have missed that.

What I meant by eye candy was in relation to videos. For example Moscow Red Devil on his R1 is eyecandy lane splitting while the video I linked or the CHP PSAs are not so much.

Personally I dont think online petitions work at all since signatures have to be verified everywhere I know of. Petitions should be more of a last resort than a first, it is far easier to get a law passed if a politician sponsors the bill and the key to that is to get people who are local to get involved. So my thought was more just to create a breeding ground and let them go to work. :)
Ah, gotcha. That makes more sense. I think a lot of the videos out there end up making lane splitting look worse do drivers - that's why I'm working on concepts to make some myself. Ideally, with front, rear, and rider's eye views and a speedo insert (to show speed modulation and because splitting often looks faster when filmed with a GoPro). I like the CHP video but I think there's room for lots of other good videos and potentially simple animations instead of live footage, to show particular concepts.
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Old 03-22-2013, 07:23 PM   #98
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...more coverage...
If you'd like, I'd be happy to disperse 60 or more at the Mendo Rally at Lake Pillsbury during the first weekend of May.
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Old 03-22-2013, 07:53 PM   #99
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If you'd like, I'd be happy to disperse 60 or more at the Mendo Rally at Lake Pillsbury during the first weekend of May.
That'd be great. PM inbound - thanks!
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Old 03-23-2013, 11:56 AM   #100
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Puke Lane splitting

I am a motorcyclist and I do lane split on occasions. I live in Clovis, so traffic is generally not an issue, more often I will just ease between cars at a stoplight. I don't mind others doing that as long as they have a bike that will out-accelerate the other traffic. However, I have noticed a few small scooters doing the lane-split at stoplights. This often occurs at a road where the speed limit is 50, and the scooters top out at 35 or 40. They do not accelerate quicker than the traffic and their top speed is well below the speed limit. Consequently, they repeatedly impede traffic. I'm just saying that if you are going to lane split, only do so if you are riding a vehicle that is quick enough and fast enough to leave the traffic behind. This is one move that is sure to result in road rage and dislike of cyclists.
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Old 03-23-2013, 01:59 PM   #101
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However, I have noticed a few small scooters doing the lane-split at stoplights. This often occurs at a road where the speed limit is 50, and the scooters top out at 35 or 40.
I dont think they should be on those roads then, they are an impediment to other traffic and the law in California and most other places is if you are unable or unwilling to go the speed limit and a queue forms behind you you must pull over and let them pass. In California the law states it is 5 or more cars behind you.

As for splitting at a stop I dont think it should matter if you can out accelerate, although it is friendlier if you can. Part of the reason for splitting is not just because you can out run anything else it is because in full gear you can overheat in summer which gives people an incentive to not wear full gear if they have to sit there in the heat. It is also because air cooled bikes will overheat, particularly in the south west which is a desert, imported water not withstanding. Even bikes that are water cooled can overheat simply because they do not have enough fan power to keep the radiator cool.

There is also the safety issue to the riders which I mentioned above (based on the Hurt report), and the fact that traffic congestion goes down with splitting so everyone gets where they want to go faster (based on the Belgian study).
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:53 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by mudpig View Post
I am a motorcyclist and I do lane split on occasions. I live in Clovis, so traffic is generally not an issue, more often I will just ease between cars at a stoplight. I don't mind others doing that as long as they have a bike that will out-accelerate the other traffic. However, I have noticed a few small scooters doing the lane-split at stoplights. This often occurs at a road where the speed limit is 50, and the scooters top out at 35 or 40. They do not accelerate quicker than the traffic and their top speed is well below the speed limit. Consequently, they repeatedly impede traffic.
Don't blame scooters - blame the riders. My wife, on her Piaggio 150, can out-accelerate urban traffic from a dead stop, and consequently she will routinely split ("do the lane-split," as you say) up to the front at signals, get the holeshot on the green light, and then quickly take a lane.
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Old 03-25-2013, 10:33 AM   #103
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Don't blame scooters - blame the riders.
Not all scooters are equal even though they look pretty much the same. I have seen some 49cc and below scooters I have also seen some 400cc ones. Someone on an underpowered scooter would be an impediment and I do not believe they should be on the road as a result.

I would blame the rider for riding an unsuitable vehicle on the roads if as the person you responded to said had a top speed of 35-45 mph. That indicates its a smaller engine and probably not able to accelerate that quickly anyway.
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:32 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by trixterNorCal View Post
Not all scooters are equal even though they look pretty much the same. I have seen some 49cc and below scooters I have also seen some 400cc ones. Someone on an underpowered scooter would be an impediment and I do not believe they should be on the road as a result.

I would blame the rider for riding an unsuitable vehicle on the roads if as the person you responded to said had a top speed of 35-45 mph. That indicates its a smaller engine and probably not able to accelerate that quickly anyway.


This is a thread about lane-splitting - not slow vehicles holding up traffic. Do try to stay on topic.
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Old 03-25-2013, 09:50 PM   #105
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This is a thread about lane-splitting - not slow vehicles holding up traffic. Do try to stay on topic.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and not assume that you intentionally omitted part of the context just to complain. The context was clearly about "slow moving vehicles holding up traffic" after splitting and how some scooters cant go faster than 35-45 mph and become an impediment to traffic. To be clear I was not saying your wife's scooter was an impediment to traffic so there was no reason to take offense and try to invalidate my on-topic response.

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