Triumph Tiger 800 XC or BMW 1200GS Adventure

[Dirty bike]

Originally Posted by invicta1

You won't be wringing the motor out for all it's worth in the wind at 75 mph.

You won't be particularly close to running out of throttle at 100mph on the 800, and heavy headwinds with large (madstad) screen and full panniers at 75mph won't stress the engine at all - if you were wringing it out you'd be well into the triple digits regardless of wind. At least that's my experience with the XC.

Color me surprised then. Not what my friend with one tells me, (the XC). And the wife rides an '11 F650GS twin, (798cc) and it is wrung out at 75-80 and though it will go faster in ideal conditions, wind or mountains and she's downshifting. Granted it's a parallel twin and not the triple, but the smaller displacement bike is working a lot harder to maintain what are normal speeds, and sometimes simply can't.

[Lion BR]

My choice:



Very smooth on gravel roads. Very comfortable for long distance travel. 200 miles between tank fills if speeds are kept in the 60-70mph.

[Dirtysouth]

Originally Posted by Dirty bike

If you're wanting to go cross country, the 800XC is a little lacking on road for highway speeds...

The triple loves to rev and rewards you with wonderful response for it's size. It will certainly get you there. A tad more maintenance than the bigger bikes, but not a deal breaker. If you're a lite packer, no worries. If you like to bring it all, well, the larger bikes start to have an advantage. You won't be wringing the motor out for all it's worth in the wind at 75 mph. On the smaller 800, expect to run out of throttle now and then on the interstates. And be willing to pack a spare set of sprockets and a chain in the bottom of your pannier for long trips. Sometimes things don't last as long as they should. And it sucks to be waiting on sprockets for a couple of days.

You really have no clue to what you're talking about do you? A 94hp 800cc 3 cylinder motor has no problem running Interstate speeds fully loaded. I am 205lbs, and have my tiger set up with a Givi E52 (loaded), Wolfman Expedition bags and rack (loaded), tall windshield, Wolfman tank bag, and of course the bash plate, engine bars, and centerstand. I have no problem whatsoever running interstate speeds and average 40 mpg at 80 mph. Need to pass a line of cars while running 80 mph, no problem just twist the throttle back. You won't run out of throttle on any road in North America "touring".

The only maintenance that would be extra on the Tiger, would be spraying your chain if you feel the need. Personally I would rather do that than pull my "pumpkin" and lube my splines. All of them require oil changes, so that's no different. The only thing a Tenere may have over the Tiger or most bikes in general, is the valve maintenance schedule.

How long has it been since you've had a bike with a chain and sprockets? I wouldn't waste my time hauling that stuff around, as a matter of fact I don't keep extras in my garage. Modern chains and sprockets last 10's of thousands of miles. How many "trips" consist of that kind of mileage?

[Dirtysouth]

Originally Posted by Dirty bike

Color me surprised then. Not what my friend with one tells me, (the XC). And the wife rides an '11 F650GS twin, (798cc) and it is wrung out at 75-80 and though it will go faster in ideal conditions, wind or mountains and she's downshifting. Granted it's a parallel twin and not the triple, but the smaller displacement bike is working a lot harder to maintain what are normal speeds, and sometimes simply can't.

A DR650 or Dakar 650 will cruise at 80 mph on the interstate, and still have enough to pass if needed. Granted when you start loading it down with panniers, you will feel the drag.

A parallel twin is nothing like a triple. I've had two parallel twins (Versys and Scrambler), and while they would do 100+ mph they were certainly more happier at legal speeds. A parallel twin isn't much more than a hopped up single IMHO. A V-twin is a lot more "comfortable" on the interstate than a parallel twin, and the Triple is heads and tails above a twin. For me the Triple is the perfect balance between a V-twin and Inline 4. You have the torque of a twin, but the rev range of a Inline 4.

[Fethiye Phil]

If you're short in stature as I am, the only way to go is the Triumph. I had a GS adventure which was a great bike and good for long distances but it was just far too big and cumbersome at slow speeds and that's why I got rid of it.

If you're not sure about the Triumph, take a look at this http://rideatriumph.com/icons-portla...kar-adventure/.

[bluesman]

Just for example.
Last year I done 800 km haul (500 miles?) on fully loaded XC through Germany at 160-180 kmph (100-115 mph) occasionally bursting to 190 and couple of times getting all out (topped at 209 kmph according to GPS) and Tiger did the job without slightest hesitation or strain. Granted, fuel consumption was not as good as at usual speeds - valid for all bikes. It felt comfy and planted. The only reason I was in such hurry because I had pneumonia and had to get to hotel ASAP as I felt I won't last much longer. It did not felt like hard work for that motor.
What need to be taken into account is that Tiger 800 is not some kind of half-arsed attempt at "beast" by Triumph. It is fast, powerful and perfectly road worthy bike.
We had 3000 km rideout with group that included VFR and FJRs and GSes and never had any problems at all.
Twisties in Norway and Eifel and Normandy were not problem either.
I did have totally different bikes over years - small V-twins, huge 800cc thumper, big sport V-twin, 600 cc il4 etc. and must admit that thou I do miss pure raw barking relatively slow-revving 1000cc sport twin that did sound like nothing else - so far Tiger 800 won my heart totally and completely.
I did not feel same for GS800, but this means nothing - it is purely personal preference. I believe GS800 is very capable and very good motorcycle too.

[JustKip]

Originally Posted by Dirty bike

Color me surprised then. Not what my friend with one tells me, (the XC). And the wife rides an '11 F650GS twin, (798cc) and it is wrung out at 75-80 and though it will go faster in ideal conditions, wind or mountains and she's downshifting. Granted it's a parallel twin and not the triple, but the smaller displacement bike is working a lot harder to maintain what are normal speeds, and sometimes simply can't.

HUGE difference between those 2 engines!
The F650 (800cc) puts out 55 lb/ft torque @ 4500 rpm while the Tiger's triple puts out 58 @ 7850. On the surface one would expect that the triple is weak in the lower rev range, like an inline 4, but that's not the case at all. While the F800(both models) starts producing torque at just over 2k rpm, the tiger's triple puts out at least 50lbs torque (90% of the F bike's peak) from under 3k to it's 10k redline! (1.5 times the rev range)
The 2 engines put out similar peak torque, but the triple carries it 1 1/2 times as far, and produces another 23 HP in the process. Where the F650 signs off at 7000rpm the Tiger keeps building another 30% HP+ over the next 3000 rpm.
On top of that, the triple is smooth while it's pulling even harder, where the vibes in the F series gets intrusive even before the power starts to fade.

[Dirtysouth]

Originally Posted by JustKip

On top of that, the triple is smooth while it's pulling even harder, where the vibes in the F series gets intrusive even before the power starts to fade.

That was one thing that I love about the triple, is the smoothness.

[Kali Trailrider]

I am sold even before I ride!!

Bringing cash with me to the dealer today.

That video just pushed me off the fence... More like jumped me!!

Triumph 800 XC is the bike for me!!

I will post pictures on my new ride.
I am told it is on order now so give me a week or two.
Plus I am going to add the center stand, fog lamps, engine protection plate to start with at least!!

Thanks to all who answered the call.

[Dirty bike]

Originally Posted by Dirtysouth

You really have no clue to what you're talking about do you? A 94hp 800cc 3 cylinder motor has no problem running Interstate speeds fully loaded. I am 205lbs, and have my tiger set up with a Givi E52 (loaded), Wolfman Expedition bags and rack (loaded), tall windshield, Wolfman tank bag, and of course the bash plate, engine bars, and centerstand. I have no problem whatsoever running interstate speeds and average 40 mpg at 80 mph. Need to pass a line of cars while running 80 mph, no problem just twist the throttle back. You won't run out of throttle on any road in North America "touring".

The only maintenance that would be extra on the Tiger, would be spraying your chain if you feel the need. Personally I would rather do that than pull my "pumpkin" and lube my splines. All of them require oil changes, so that's no different. The only thing a Tenere may have over the Tiger or most bikes in general, is the valve maintenance schedule.

How long has it been since you've had a bike with a chain and sprockets? I wouldn't waste my time hauling that stuff around, as a matter of fact I don't keep extras in my garage. Modern chains and sprockets last 10's of thousands of miles. How many "trips" consist of that kind of mileage?

Easy there, we're sharing opinions, remember. I don't even have a Triumph dealer within a hundred miles from me. It's not on my list of bikes, nor are any with chains. How long since I owned one with a chain? Not counting the Big Dog I sold last year, 2002, (an FZ-1). That's about 200k miles back too, fwiw. I never had issues with the chain on a street bike. The wife's F650GS that I have to fix all the time eats chains/sprockets in 15k. Different bikes. And that GS isn't the Tiger, we certainly agree on that.

As I said, I'm surprised the Tiger has as much performance as you folks suggest. The one guy I know with one doesn't agree, but it's just one guy, so who knows if there are other issues.

As to pulling the "pumpkin" to lube splines, it's not something you need to do every tire change, and it's 4 acorn nuts once the wheel is off. I can have that done in about the time it takes you to clean and lube a chain. It doesn't wear out, ever. At least on the Yamahas. The big GS is full of issues. Just go read the Puma letters.

Apparently I take longer trips than you do. I've done several trips that were over 10k in a couple of weeks time. The wife ran over 10k a while back in 12 days on a little ride. And she did have to replace the chain, but admittedly because we foolishly believed the people that told us it would last "10's of thousands of miles". Guess you don't ride in rain much. Good on you.

What I didn't do is share my personal opinion on the bikes. Because I haven't ridden the XC more than a test ride and though I do have more riding on the big GS, I don't own one. But I do spend a lot of time riding with my wife, she on the BMW which is an 800cc bike and me on the 1200 Super Tenere, and honestly, I get tired of her not being able to keep up on strait highway due to wind/hills. I get tired of the little bike coming home on a tow truck too. In MY OPINION, 800 cc is too small for loaded cross country riding. But it's just my opinion, so share your opinion and don't let it get you all worked up.

And you're right, it probably makes a difference what size you are. The wife is 120 lbs 5'4". At 250 lbs and 5'11" the little GS is a joke for me to ride. The OP needs to do some bike tasting and see what works for him. For his stated type of riding, who knows what he will prefer. Considering his background, I'd guess the 800XC would fit the bill better, but for his stated type of future riding, a 1200 might better suit those needs.

In regards to what the Tenere may have over the Triumph or other bikes, I leave you with one thought - dealer network. Not as much a worry for the Triumph, but it certainly is for the GS.

[Dirty bike]

Originally Posted by JustKip

HUGE difference between those 2 engines!
The F650 (800cc) puts out 55 lb/ft torque @ 4500 rpm while the Tiger's triple puts out 58 @ 7850. On the surface one would expect that the triple is weak in the lower rev range, like an inline 4, but that's not the case at all. While the F800(both models) starts producing torque at just over 2k rpm, the tiger's triple puts out at least 50lbs torque (90% of the F bike's peak) from under 3k to it's 10k redline! (1.5 times the rev range)
The 2 engines put out similar peak torque, but the triple carries it 1 1/2 times as far, and produces another 23 HP in the process. Where the F650 signs off at 7000rpm the Tiger keeps building another 30% HP+ over the next 3000 rpm.
On top of that, the triple is smooth while it's pulling even harder, where the vibes in the F series gets intrusive even before the power starts to fade.

Nice comparison and analysis JustKip. Thanks for pointing that out.

[JustKip]

If you're not getting at least 15k miles from your chain and sprockets, you're doing it wrong. Lots of people get twice that.
They do require a little maintenance


Inspect and replace before they're bad and very long trips are possible without problems, but you need to carry and use your chain lube every few hundred miles.

[some call me...tim]

Originally Posted by Dirty bike

Easy there, we're sharing opinions, remember. I don't even have a Triumph dealer within a hundred miles from me. It's not on my list of bikes, nor are any with chains. How long since I owned one with a chain? Not counting the Big Dog I sold last year, 2002, (an FZ-1). That's about 200k miles back too, fwiw. I never had issues with the chain on a street bike. The wife's F650GS that I have to fix all the time eats chains/sprockets in 15k. Different bikes. And that GS isn't the Tiger, we certainly agree on that.

As I said, I'm surprised the Tiger has as much performance as you folks suggest. The one guy I know with one doesn't agree, but it's just one guy, so who knows if there are other issues.

As to pulling the "pumpkin" to lube splines, it's not something you need to do every tire change, and it's 4 acorn nuts once the wheel is off. I can have that done in about the time it takes you to clean and lube a chain. It doesn't wear out, ever. At least on the Yamahas. The big GS is full of issues. Just go read the Puma letters.

Apparently I take longer trips than you do. I've done several trips that were over 10k in a couple of weeks time. The wife ran over 10k a while back in 12 days on a little ride. And she did have to replace the chain, but admittedly because we foolishly believed the people that told us it would last "10's of thousands of miles". Guess you don't ride in rain much. Good on you.

What I didn't do is share my personal opinion on the bikes. Because I haven't ridden the XC more than a test ride and though I do have more riding on the big GS, I don't own one. But I do spend a lot of time riding with my wife, she on the BMW which is an 800cc bike and me on the 1200 Super Tenere, and honestly, I get tired of her not being able to keep up on strait highway due to wind/hills. I get tired of the little bike coming home on a tow truck too. In MY OPINION, 800 cc is too small for loaded cross country riding. But it's just my opinion, so share your opinion and don't let it get you all worked up.

And you're right, it probably makes a difference what size you are. The wife is 120 lbs 5'4". At 250 lbs and 5'11" the little GS is a joke for me to ride. The OP needs to do some bike tasting and see what works for him. For his stated type of riding, who knows what he will prefer. Considering his background, I'd guess the 800XC would fit the bill better, but for his stated type of future riding, a 1200 might better suit those needs.

In regards to what the Tenere may have over the Triumph or other bikes, I leave you with one thought - dealer network. Not as much a worry for the Triumph, but it certainly is for the GS.

I don't think displacement plays as much a role as you're giving it. Before I got my XC, I toured on my little SV650S and it did fine. I carried quite a bunch of crap on it too (a good deal more than I needed), and besides being a bit more cumbersome at low speeds and more boat like in the twisties, I didn't notice a big impact to the ability of the motorcycle. Highway speeds were just as easy, and I could still pass slow cars without issue. I might have to downshift a gear instead of just rolling on in 6th, but all in all, not an issue.

As to your friend's take on the 800XC's highway speed, I don't know what to say. It's got more power than I've found a use for as of yet. Cruising at 70-80 is no problem, though I do wish they geared 6th a little higher. The bike would easily get into triple digits if I wanted.

[Dirty bike]

Originally Posted by JustKip

If you're not getting at least 15k miles from your chain and sprockets, you're doing it wrong. Lots of people get twice that.
They do require a little maintenance


Inspect and replace before they're bad and very long trips are possible without problems, but you need to carry and use your chain lube every few hundred miles.

Oh, I agree. Are you married? I always lubed every 600 miles, per the owners manual on the FZ. Sadly, the dealer tells my wife she doesn't have to lube the chain, so she won't do it and I do try and catch it every now and then, but have to listen to her bitch at me for doing it. (and yeah, I see a pattern there, but she doesn't)

Different bikes are better or worse on chains too. I know some riders that are religious on chain maintenance and lube but can't seem to get more than 10k out of a chain. Others seem to do nothing more than wipe it clean and tell me they get 30k consistently.

[JustKip]

Originally Posted by Dirty bike

Sadly, the dealer tells my wife she doesn't have to lube the chain, so she won't do it

The same dealer that tells her that they're good for 10s of thousands of miles? It would seem that she needs to choose between these 2 nuggets of wisdom, because they clearly aren't working together. It's one or the other, but not both. If 7k from a chain is OK then don't bother lubing, but the time it takes to change chain and sprockets outweighs a little spray once in a while.