Triumph Tiger 800 XC or BMW 1200GS Adventure

[milzispete]

Originally Posted by Dirty bike

Color me surprised then. Not what my friend with one tells me, (the XC). And the wife rides an '11 F650GS twin, (798cc) and it is wrung out at 75-80 and though it will go faster in ideal conditions, wind or mountains and she's downshifting. Granted it's a parallel twin and not the triple, but the smaller displacement bike is working a lot harder to maintain what are normal speeds, and sometimes simply can't.

I'm not sure compairing the XC to an urban turd like a F650GS is fair on either bike

[Dirtysouth]

Originally Posted by Dirty bike

Easy there, we're sharing opinions, remember. I don't even have a Triumph dealer within a hundred miles from me. It's not on my list of bikes, nor are any with chains. How long since I owned one with a chain? Not counting the Big Dog I sold last year, 2002, (an FZ-1). That's about 200k miles back too, fwiw. I never had issues with the chain on a street bike. The wife's F650GS that I have to fix all the time eats chains/sprockets in 15k. Different bikes. And that GS isn't the Tiger, we certainly agree on that.

As I said, I'm surprised the Tiger has as much performance as you folks suggest. The one guy I know with one doesn't agree, but it's just one guy, so who knows if there are other issues.

As to pulling the "pumpkin" to lube splines, it's not something you need to do every tire change, and it's 4 acorn nuts once the wheel is off. I can have that done in about the time it takes you to clean and lube a chain. It doesn't wear out, ever. At least on the Yamahas. The big GS is full of issues. Just go read the Puma letters.

Apparently I take longer trips than you do. I've done several trips that were over 10k in a couple of weeks time. The wife ran over 10k a while back in 12 days on a little ride. And she did have to replace the chain, but admittedly because we foolishly believed the people that told us it would last "10's of thousands of miles". Guess you don't ride in rain much. Good on you.

What I didn't do is share my personal opinion on the bikes. Because I haven't ridden the XC more than a test ride and though I do have more riding on the big GS, I don't own one. But I do spend a lot of time riding with my wife, she on the BMW which is an 800cc bike and me on the 1200 Super Tenere, and honestly, I get tired of her not being able to keep up on strait highway due to wind/hills. I get tired of the little bike coming home on a tow truck too. In MY OPINION, 800 cc is too small for loaded cross country riding. But it's just my opinion, so share your opinion and don't let it get you all worked up.

And you're right, it probably makes a difference what size you are. The wife is 120 lbs 5'4". At 250 lbs and 5'11" the little GS is a joke for me to ride. The OP needs to do some bike tasting and see what works for him. For his stated type of riding, who knows what he will prefer. Considering his background, I'd guess the 800XC would fit the bill better, but for his stated type of future riding, a 1200 might better suit those needs.

In regards to what the Tenere may have over the Triumph or other bikes, I leave you with one thought - dealer network. Not as much a worry for the Triumph, but it certainly is for the GS.

Trust me I'm not getting worked up, I just have little tolerance for people spouting that which they know nothing of. The Tiger 800's engine is a lot different than your wife's bike, no comparison. Engine CC doesn't mean anything these days, hell I'm not sure that they ever meant anything but they certainly don't today.

Is the Tiger 800 for everyone, of course not. That's the beauty of the Dualsport/Adventure segment of bikes, a lot of choices. I like checking out and looking at the different bikes when I see them out, or at ADV events. I'm not brand specific, and actually like the Tenere. For me it just worked out that the Tiger 800 XC was what I was looking for in a bike. With that being said, just because it works for me doesn't mean it will work for everyone.

So your wife averages over 830 miles a day on a 12 day "ride" and the chain and sprockets have to replaced because you foolishly believed the people who say that they can get 10s of thousands of miles out of a set, or because she won't lube the chain. Which is it? As far as riding in the rain, I would think that here in the South East, we see more rain and humidity than you do in Utah. Regardless, maintaining a chain is as easy as putting it on the centerstand at the end of a days ride, and squirting it with some chain lube. That takes me about 30 seconds tops, but I don't get in any hurry so it could probably be done quicker.

Moral of the story is this. One, if you've never actually owned at least one of the bikes in question, it's usually not a good idea to give your "opinion" one of them, especially when "your" opinion is not yours to begin with, but a buddy of yours. Secondly, it's also probably not a good idea to compare it to a third bike either, I mean lets not get off tangent here. Thirdly, it's not a good idea to contradict yourself when it comes to one of your main arguments; i.e. the chain and sprocket being extra maintenance argument. Either you take 30 seconds a day on a long trip to spray a little lube on the chain and get 10s of thousands of miles, or you get lazy and spend more money than you have to. Dealerships love the latter of the two as they keep the lights on by helping part fools from their money.

For the OP. Good luck in your search. There are many bikes out there that are all quiet capable of delivering you to your destination. The bikes are usually not what handicaps the rider, it's the other way around.

[markbvt]

Originally Posted by Dirty bike

If you're wanting to go cross country, the 800XC is a little lacking on road for highway speeds...

This is totally untrue. The 800 XC does great on the highway. Plenty of power, and it doesn't even begin to feel tapped out at normal highway cruising speeds (75-80), or significantly beyond.

Trust me, my XC has hauled my 6'4"/250lb ass 31,000 miles all over the eastern half of this continent, loaded down for touring, with more than enough power to spare. And all the folks who've been saying that the triple is a fantastic engine are absolutely correct!

And by the way, that 31,000 miles has all been on the original chain. I could probably get another few thousand out of it, but I'm going to replace it before this riding season starts just so I don't have to do it partway through.

As for the original question... comparing an R1200GSA to a Tiger 800 XC really is apples to oranges. If you ride the GSA for a bit, then get on the Tiger, the XC will feel like a big dirtbike in comparison. But a big dirtbike that's also a ton of fun on pavement.

--mark

[pju]

You won't regret your purchase.
Here is a video my mate took of my XC last weekend after torrential rain here in the last week.
I still have on the standard Pirelli Scorpian Trail tyres 90/10. I'll be getting K60 Scouts soon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFjWbcUZ37w

P.S Get the barbbusters, crashbars and bash plate ASAP

cheers

[Dirty bike]

Originally Posted by JustKip

The same dealer that tells her that they're good for 10s of thousands of miles? It would seem that she needs to choose between these 2 nuggets of wisdom, because they clearly aren't working together. It's one or the other, but not both. If 7k from a chain is OK then don't bother lubing, but the time it takes to change chain and sprockets outweighs a little spray once in a while.

You're preaching to the choir. I know that, but she refuses to accept it. Yeah, multiple BMW dealers have told her she doesn't need to lube the chain, and many friends that ride chain bikes have told her it does, and to get a chain oiler, but it's been a no go so far. I couldn't even get her to carry the tools to adjust the chain when she did her solo 10k mile trip. Though she does now, since she had to ask a trucker if he had a big wrench for her axle nut on the PA turnpike at a service plaza when the chain was so loose it was slapping against the swingarm to the point she was scared to go on. I even pointed out the owner's manual where it lists the chain lube interval.

[Dirty bike]

@Dirtysouth - read my original post again. Aside from a couple of points on the 800 being smaller and not having enough oomph for highway speeds, (which you gents corrected me about), it's pretty much on target.

Long trips - well, I'm not sure what you call long trips is the same as what I call long trips. I did toss a new chain and sprockets on the wife's F650GS2 before we rode to AL the day after Christmas. It was getting due, though it was only a 4400 mile trip, I didn't want to worry about it. At this point, if we took another trip of that length or longer, I wouldn't leave w/o a chain and sprockets in the pannier.

I know guys that have roasted a chain in a single trip of only a few thousand miles, but that was a 'busa and extended high speeds were involved. He had a chain oiler, (Scott), but a 32 hour endurance rally and it was toast.

I also know a few guys that get 30k out of chains and sprockets. They do a good job of keeping it lubed and adjusted and typically never ride more than a few hundred miles a day. When I had the FZ-1 there were times on trips when I was lubing it twice a day, following the recommended service interval of 600 miles. That gets old. If I had kept it, I would have added an oiler.

[SPX]

Originally Posted by Dirty bike

Color me surprised then. Not what my friend with one tells me, (the XC). And the wife rides an '11 F650GS twin, (798cc) and it is wrung out at 75-80 and though it will go faster in ideal conditions, wind or mountains and she's downshifting. Granted it's a parallel twin and not the triple, but the smaller displacement bike is working a lot harder to maintain what are normal speeds, and sometimes simply can't.

With this post in mind, I paid a bit of attention to my engine RPM on the freeway today. 84 MPH in 6th, and approximately 3,600 RPM below redline. (Tiger 800XC)

[JustKip]

Originally Posted by Dirty bike

You're preaching to the choir. I know that, but she refuses to accept it. Yeah, multiple BMW dealers have told her she doesn't need to lube the chain, and many friends that ride chain bikes have told her it does, and to get a chain oiler, but it's been a no go so far. I couldn't even get her to carry the tools to adjust the chain when she did her solo 10k mile trip. Though she does now, since she had to ask a trucker if he had a big wrench for her axle nut on the PA turnpike at a service plaza when the chain was so loose it was slapping against the swingarm to the point she was scared to go on. I even pointed out the owner's manual where it lists the chain lube interval.

"Preaching to the chior"?

You were singing a different tune in your first post (below), where it was You saying that the chain won't last thru a long trip. Now you're saying it will with proper maintenance, and you've thought so all along? The bike in the pic I posted on page 1 has 16,000 miles on the original chain, which has been lubed with spray on chain lube every 600-1000 miles. It has done a dozen or more 600+ mile days at speeds in excess of 80 mph all day. The rear sprocket is showing a little wear now, but it's got a lot of miles left.

A new chain and can of lube will easily get you across the continent and back more than twice. Does that qualify as a "long trip"?

Originally Posted by Dirty bike

And be willing to pack a spare set of sprockets and a chain in the bottom of your pannier for long trips. Sometimes things don't last as long as they should. And it sucks to be waiting on sprockets for a couple of days.

[eakins]

Originally Posted by Dirty bike

Color me surprised then. Not what my friend with one tells me, (the XC). And the wife rides an '11 F650GS twin, (798cc) and it is wrung out at 75-80 and though it will go faster in ideal conditions, wind or mountains and she's downshifting. Granted it's a parallel twin and not the triple, but the smaller displacement bike is working a lot harder to maintain what are normal speeds, and sometimes simply can't.

?
my 35hp DR650 will cruise at 75 all day long with power to 90.
are 1/2 of the spark plugs pulled on the bike?
I rode my buddies 800xc and it got to 100 real fast and had alot more from there.

[eakins]

as far as chains. a modern DID (z)VM/X chain will last a minimum of 15K miles with little to no love to it. swap the counter-sprocket at 10K and you'll get easily get 20K. for some people they never ride that much the whole time they own that bike. http://www.didchain.com/index.htm

[Dirty bike]

@JustKip - I am not changing my tune at all. Preaching to the choir meant about the chain being lubed. I agree it's a necessary task.

I still very much believe that for a long trip you should be packing a chain and sprockets. But a long trip to me is 4k+. Shit happens. If you're just a day trip rider, it's moot, no reason to worry about it. You'll always have plenty of notice that the chain/sprockets are going to need some attention.

I do agree that my wife's chain maintenance is not ideal, imho. But I also know that no matter what you do, sometimes a chain suffers a shorter life than you may expect. And that you don't find a Triumph dealer as commonly as other dealers. You can score a chain pretty easily, and if you carry the tools to break the chain and install a master link, (I won't use a clip master, only rivet), it's not a trip ender, but you might get stuck waiting if you have to get the sprockets shipped to you.

It's just cheap insurance to carry the spares. Would you go off riding w/o flat repair tools? Same thing to me.

@eakins - I agree with the DID chain. On the DR650 - Load it up with hard cases and gear and come for a ride. I promise to wait for you when you can't make the hills or the wind bitch slaps you down to 3rd gear.

Remember the OP was talking about

I am mostly looking for a touring bike that I can hit some fire roads.
Long trips and camping off the bike is in my future.

That says loaded up pretty good to me, not just a giant loop and a camelback. YMMV

Hopefully the OP will have a ton of fun on what ever he ends up on and it will meet his needs.

[browneye]

Originally Posted by Kali Trailrider

I am sold even before I ride!!

Bringing cash with me to the dealer today.

That video just pushed me off the fence... More like jumped me!!

Triumph 800 XC is the bike for me!!

I will post pictures on my new ride.
I am told it is on order now so give me a week or two.
Plus I am going to add the center stand, fog lamps, engine protection plate to start with at least!!

Thanks to all who answered the call.

Congrats Jerry! You made a good choice, you will absolutely love the bike.

Any of the detractors here about toruing with the XC just don't know what they're talking about. It will cruise, loaded, at well above legal limits, effortlessly. And it will dirt roads with aplomb. Everyone just raves about the triple, hard to explain and describe without experiencing it. What a gem of a motor. Fit and finish, and compentry, is excellent as well. They put together a very nice adventure bike at a really good price point. At this juncture, with 5K miles on mine, the only other bike I would even consider would be a 990 Adventure, but I just don't want to deal with finicky KTM. They are a great bike though, more dirt oriented. For me, the XC still wins.

[capriccio]

Dear DIRTYSOUTH, "hell I'm not sure that they ever meant anything but they certainly don't today" when you make statement like this then YOU sound like you don't have a clue. CC's give the engine its torque numbers, RPM's give the engine its HP numbers. So CC's have always and still today have a lot to with overall engine power. Fuel injection maps today allow enginners to customize power delivery and rev range but there still is no replacement for CC's,

[Dirtysouth]

Originally Posted by capriccio

Dear DIRTYSOUTH, "hell I'm not sure that they ever meant anything but they certainly don't today" when you make statement like this then YOU sound like you don't have a clue. CC's give the engine its torque numbers, RPM's give the engine its HP numbers. So CC's have always and still today have a lot to with overall engine power. Fuel injection maps today allow enginners to customize power delivery and rev range but there still is no replacement for CC's,

I respectfully disagree. A DR650 is a 650cc engine, whereas a GSXR600 is only a 600cc engine. Tell me in your infinite widsom, which one produces more torque and HP?

[JustKip]

Originally Posted by capriccio

Dear DIRTYSOUTH, "hell I'm not sure that they ever meant anything but they certainly don't today" when you make statement like this then YOU sound like you don't have a clue. CC's give the engine its torque numbers, RPM's give the engine its HP numbers. So CC's have always and still today have a lot to with overall engine power. Fuel injection maps today allow enginners to customize power delivery and rev range but there still is no replacement for CC's,

My '46 Knucklehead 74 had slightly more displacement than my '07 R1200GS, but only produced about half the torque.