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Old 03-30-2013, 05:53 PM   #136
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Flat out amazing Erling...! You are quite the techie! Love it.
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Old 03-30-2013, 06:22 PM   #137
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Flat out amazing Erling...! You are quite the techie! Love it.
Thank you sir.....
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Old 03-31-2013, 02:02 PM   #138
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Simply amazing how a correctly fueled bike handles at low speed.

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Old 03-31-2013, 02:48 PM   #139
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That is impressive and will sell more than all the dyno results.

Wait a minute, do you have a Rekluse clutch? Thats cheating.
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Old 03-31-2013, 03:18 PM   #140
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That is impressive and will sell more than all the dyno results.

Wait a minute, do you have a Rekluse clutch? Thats cheating.
Ha ha.... In honesty.... I have done this run before the Clutch..... BUT... you have to know what you are doing, as one mistake throws you off. I am a borderline trials and all mountain bike rider, so I have experience to wrestle a 500 pound goose around..... well... at least when it comes to balance.... what I was trying to illustrate was the correct fueling off idle, as after the PC-5/AT it could idle along in first all day long. I should have posted this before the Clutch, but they were done within a few days of each other.
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Old 03-31-2013, 07:18 PM   #141
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Been following this thread closely, more so now that I scored a used Remus header set on the FleaBay yesterday! What I'm wondering is could I just purchase a PC-V from Sisneros with the map that they worked up for your Arrow header and open exhaust since I'll have essentially the same setup with the Remus and open pipe. That way I could skip the AT unit which is adding up to quite a chunk of change for that whole setup.
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Old 03-31-2013, 07:42 PM   #142
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Been following this thread closely, more so now that I scored a used Remus header set on the FleaBay yesterday! What I'm wondering is could I just purchase a PC-V from Sisneros with the map that they worked up for your Arrow header and open exhaust since I'll have essentially the same setup with the Remus and open pipe. That way I could skip the AT unit which is adding up to quite a chunk of change for that whole setup.
You can do that, but I think that you will get better economy, and altitude+temperature adjustment with the AT as well. The preloaded map is good for one elevation....or should I say small elevation changes, and temp changes, but as you don't use the O2 sensor for other than about 0-10%, and WOT.... then under many ride conditions the stock is guessing at best. The AT module will essensially turn your bike into a full time adjusting F/I system. It is something you can add at a later time. Eddie is set up to ship the unit with the preloaded map, and he is always there to answer any questions you might have. My base map will work on your as well, and take care of the stock kangaroo hop.
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Old 04-01-2013, 05:24 PM   #143
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Another update. After putting about 300 miles on it, I am happy, although puzzled to find that when running with the AT on, and a global map of 13.2 AFR, I have gained about 5-7 miles per gallon. I know... I know.... Luni. I was expecting none, was told it should be better, and Although I have not been on the freeway at sustained speeds of 70 mph, the average city, and freeway riding, have yielded an average of 60 mpg. I was routinely getting 52-53 before. This is after about 300 miles. One interesting thing is that the AT is not active until 2% throttle, but with the base map that Eddie programed ( mind you it was derived from the dyno, with roll on throttles from idle) is actually richer, than with the AFR of 13.2, as I see as high as a 20% subtraction in the 2-5% throttle. Interesting indeed. As I get to know the system more, I would like to inject that you can have the best base map in the world, but if you run AT, that goes out the window ( when above 2% throttle) as you now just sets the AFR values. Mine is globally set at 13.2. Stay tuned for more reports.
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:28 PM   #144
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Another update. After putting about 300 miles on it, I am happy, although puzzled to find that when running with the AT on, and a global map of 13.2 AFR, I have gained about 5-7 miles per gallon. I know... I know.... Luni. I was expecting none, was told it should be better, and Although I have not been on the freeway at sustained speeds of 70 mph, the average city, and freeway riding, have yielded an average of 60 mpg. I was routinely getting 52-53 before. This is after about 300 miles. One interesting thing is that the AT is not active until 2% throttle, but with the base map that Eddie programed ( mind you it was derived from the dyno, with roll on throttles from idle) is actually richer, than with the AFR of 13.2, as I see as high as a 20% subtraction in the 2-5% throttle. Interesting indeed. As I get to know the system more, I would like to inject that you can have the best base map in the world, but if you run AT, that goes out the window ( when above 2% throttle) as you now just sets the AFR values. Mine is globally set at 13.2. Stay tuned for more reports.
On our industrial engines, we know that "best economy", "best power", and "best emissions" are usually three different AFR settings. Best emissions is definately not where you would run for fuel economy. Thus EPA's NOx emission desires are in conflict with lower CO2 desires. Anyway I got to go back and read your dissertation here, as I'm late to this thread. You've probably already knew this.

David
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Old 04-01-2013, 08:17 PM   #145
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On our industrial engines, we know that "best economy", "best power", and "best emissions" are usually three different AFR settings. Best emissions is definately not where you would run for fuel economy. Thus EPA's NOx emission desires are in conflict with lower CO2 desires. Anyway I got to go back and read your dissertation here, as I'm late to this thread. You've probably already knew this.

David
Correct. Most of the times the you end up in between best economy, and emission. But as I was told time after time, by Eddie..... It takes a certain amount of power to make this thing move at a certain speed. So as these early trials exhibits, is that the stock 8gs..... Well, now I perhaps need to be careful. A stock+open pipe, is so under fueled, and thus to meet the equation just mentioned, large'er throttle openings were in order, to satisfy this. Yes....epa is happy, but as Eddie explained, this bike was leaned way beyond economy, and far into the epa. So with EPA on top , and Economy, below that, finally you have power. And in this case I cautiously dare to throw out the following thesis. Stock mapped (EPA) 8GS is too lean to optimize on fuel economy. Mine is now too rich to maximized the economy. We saw 16-20 AFR with a few dips to 14AFR as acceleration was done, on stock, when we just drove around on the dyno. I am now at 13.2.AFR Perhaps at 13.8AFR is maximum economy...... Who knows...... I will... In a few short months, as it is tremendously easy to just load another AFR into the PC-5....go ride...... easy. But back to the thesis. As I rely on the trip computer, which on my bike agrees with the miles traveled vs fuel burned...... I will state that the now fueled for power F8GS is more economical than the stock fueled for EPA.
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Old 04-01-2013, 08:25 PM   #146
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What happened.... ?????? Anyway.....
From a fellow inmate.....

" One thing I had never though of is the effect of ethanol on A/F/R. It makes the engine run about 4% leaner in open mode without imput from the oxygen sensor. Makes me wonder what happens when you add freer flowing airboxes, headers and exhaust without some attempt to enrichen the mixture.
"

A very interesting thought, and I must say I don't have any idea.... But to add to the equation, as soon as I get a chance, I will explore the intake side as well. I personally think there are more to be had. Might be off by a country side..... but I am curious. Wont be stock though. I personally think it runs dangerously lean with headers+ open pipe. I actually have a K&N filter for it, but as I spend much time in the dirt, are under the opinion that it does not filter good enough for my engine.... without a pre filter, which chokes it up further.
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Old 04-01-2013, 10:57 PM   #147
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Well I was reading this thread: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...=749080&page=8 another way to skin a Kat. It is Roger 04 rt position that Ethanol lowers afr. I know it has a lower burn rate, not doubting him, I just have not got my head around it yet.

An 1150 rt is not a F800gs but, I got to believe the electronics are very similiar. A good read if you want to get some college level knowledge of how this stuff all works.

I am thinking if an Innovate Motosport LC1 works on the flat twin, why not a F800gs?

The cliff notes are you can lower the electrical value of the Oxygen sensor signal (wide band) to the ECU to get a richer mixture. That works while the bike is in closed loop. However on the 1150, the ECU is adaptive and will learn to do the same in open loop.

I got more to learn.
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:04 PM   #148
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Well I'm caught up. I doubt the newly tuned engine is running where it needs to be for the catalyst. However part of me wonders if it was before. Anyway the only way to know would be some nox and co sensing during the test runs, and I don't think you did that. Anyway, I'm not really concerned with that part of the equation.

It was a nice catch to see how lean the mixture gets as you improve the airflow. If some one is into tuning the exhaust that would be something important to keep in mind. Let us know if the air intake mods pushes it lean again.

Its is odd to me, that the fuel curve seems to purely be based on engine RPM and the O2 sensor does very little to correct the fuel. If this is true, tuning the AFR map can have a significant effect on this bike.

Thanks again, David
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Old 04-02-2013, 06:47 AM   #149
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Well I was reading this thread: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...=749080&page=8 another way to skin a Kat. It is Roger 04 rt position that Ethanol lowers afr. I know it has a lower burn rate, not doubting him, I just have not got my head around it yet.

An 1150 rt is not a F800gs but, I got to believe the electronics are very similiar. A good read if you want to get some college level knowledge of how this stuff all works.

I am thinking if an Innovate Motosport LC1 works on the flat twin, why not a F800gs?

The cliff notes are you can lower the electrical value of the Oxygen sensor signal (wide band) to the ECU to get a richer mixture. That works while the bike is in closed loop. However on the 1150, the ECU is adaptive and will learn to do the same in open loop.

I got more to learn.
I was quoting you, and then after posting it,saw that you nuked it, so thinking you did not want it posted I made it anonymous..... I went back last night to read it. And very interesting read indeed. I dont know anything about the LC-1, so I really cant comment. Personally I am not real keen on the method to control the mixture ( by varying the O2 out put) but perhaps that's just me. It is interested that they are using the PC-3, as opposed to the PC-5. I suppose the LC-1 will work on the 8GS, and is cheaper. Personally I cant see how it gets any easier than the PC-5, from an end user feasibility. If you go for it, I will read your write up with great interest....
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Old 04-02-2013, 06:48 AM   #150
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Another note..... we used the switched power outlet to power the pc-5. Unfortunately it placed just enough drain on that circuit so the canbus leaves it active, thinking there is a charger on it, thus draining the battery. Anyone with a electrical diagram that will share a key switched wire with me....?????
Looks like you've already solved this one but for future reference how about using the GPS connector to draw switched power.
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