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Old 04-02-2013, 05:52 AM   #151
ebrabaek OP
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Originally Posted by MTrider16 View Post
Well I'm caught up. I doubt the newly tuned engine is running where it needs to be for the catalyst.
Cat is removed, as per arrow headers. Correct, that if they were still installed, the now richer mixture might present an issue.

However part of me wonders if it was before. Anyway the only way to know would be some nox and co sensing during the test runs, and I don't think you did that. Anyway, I'm not really concerned with that part of the equation.
All we have there is BMW, or reliayng on them that the stock map is good for the CAT.


It was a nice catch to see how lean the mixture gets as you improve the airflow. If some one is into tuning the exhaust that would be something important to keep in mind. Let us know if the air intake mods pushes it lean again.
Yeppers..... I am excited about this one.

Its is odd to me, that the fuel curve seems to purely be based on engine RPM and the O2 sensor does very little to correct the fuel. If this is true, tuning the AFR map can have a significant effect on this bike.
Not sure what you mean...???

Thanks again, David
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Old 04-02-2013, 05:55 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by jscottyk View Post
Looks like you've already solved this one but for future reference how about using the GPS connector to draw switched power.
My GPS is using the same source as the PC-5 was ( back side of the BMW plug) and the " bit more draw" from the PC-5 made the canbus think a charger was connected. Perhaps you are talking about a different connector...???
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Old 04-02-2013, 07:54 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by ebrabaek View Post
My GPS is using the same source as the PC-5 was ( back side of the BMW plug) and the " bit more draw" from the PC-5 made the canbus think a charger was connected. Perhaps you are talking about a different connector...???
Ah. Makes sense. Hadn't considers the PC-5 would draw more current than a GPS.

And yes, I think we are talking about the same connector.
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:34 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by jscottyk View Post
Ah. Makes sense. Hadn't considers the PC-5 would draw more current than a GPS.

And yes, I think we are talking about the same connector.
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Old 04-02-2013, 03:44 PM   #155
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So.... a funny thing happened today. El Paso,TX is split by the southern most part of the rocky mountains. The highest highway in TX cuts clear from west to north east part of town. 4000 feet....up to 5600 feet, at an 8% grade, then back down the other side. I went to Flamenco rehearsal, carrying my guitar on the back of the bike, creating quite a broad cross section for a bike. Heading back, the winds were at 40-50 mph, and I was messing with the diference AT on, and off. Remember that with it off, above 5% throttle, I am at stock map. So I was riding with the AT off.... heading back up at 60 mph, I was fighting the wind, having to use about 90% throttle....crazy, but that is the southwest in spring to you. At one point, I was at 100% throttle, and I hit the AT button, and the bike was like getting a small shot of nitros..... I was half way up at about 4800 feet on the 8% grade. I thought....nahhhhh..... did it again. Same results.... Absolutely no doubt the bike instantaneously roared forward. I have noticed before doing this mod, that in steep headwinds, that the bike would sorta hesitate, during headwind.....and steep climbs.... requiring a whole lotta throttle. I was just amazed of the the transparancy with the flick of a switch..... Not used to that. Now where did I set down my espresso....
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Old 04-02-2013, 07:25 PM   #156
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That explains it, I thought the headers left the stock Cat in place.

Regarding the RPM; it seemed like the AFR was changing with the engine speed, but maybe the engine control was too slow and let the AFR drift a little as the RPM was changing. I'll have to watch your vids again ans see if I can figure this out.

Thanks,
David
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Old 04-02-2013, 07:32 PM   #157
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So has anybody heard anything about the electronic jet kits available for BMWs and others. I just stumbled onto them and they look like an economical way to just add fuel to a system that's obviously lean from intake and/or exhaust mods. The link for the F800 model is here: http://www.electronicjetkit.com/BMW/...number=9120316
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:43 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by MTrider16 View Post
That explains it, I thought the headers left the stock Cat in place.

Regarding the RPM; it seemed like the AFR was changing with the engine speed, but maybe the engine control was too slow and let the AFR drift a little as the RPM was changing. I'll have to watch your vids again ans see if I can figure this out.

Thanks,
David
It was actually mph on the bottom graph, as we could not pick up the rpm, thus no torque values were calculated, but fellow inmate went through the trouble to calculate them. I actually think it is a pretty nice AFR curve, with the sniffer in the tail pipe.
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:50 PM   #159
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So has anybody heard anything about the electronic jet kits available for BMWs and others. I just stumbled onto them and they look like an economical way to just add fuel to a system that's obviously lean from intake and/or exhaust mods. The link for the F800 model is here: http://www.electronicjetkit.com/BMW/...number=9120316
I have no experience with that unit. But after reading the install file, I would caution that it appears to just add fuel, like a booster plug does.... But in a bit more complex way. It plugs in between the stock injectors, and the stock ecu, and then based on what you think, you can add or subtract fuel. Imho, you need a laptop to create the correct map, as it is too complicated to just generalize. It would be interesting though for someone to try. I would not myself. The PC-5 is only about $100 more, and are a more refined tuning tool.
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Old 04-03-2013, 06:25 AM   #160
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I agree that the PC-V is a more refined tool, and I might go that route in the end. While it's only $100 more by itself, if you add the auto tune which it seems like you would want to for our F800's, then it's more like $350 more. Seems like a dyno run with the configuration you're planning on running with adjustments made with the electronic jet kit would be a pretty good setup. Without the dyno, I agree that you're kinda guessing what to adjust based only on your seat of the pants feeling.
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Old 04-03-2013, 06:32 AM   #161
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I agree that the PC-V is a more refined tool, and I might go that route in the end. While it's only $100 more by itself, if you add the auto tune which it seems like you would want to for our F800's, then it's more like $350 more. Seems like a dyno run with the configuration you're planning on running with adjustments made with the electronic jet kit would be a pretty good setup. Without the dyno, I agree that you're kinda guessing what to adjust based only on your seat of the pants feeling.
Yeppers.
My goal was to turn the fueling into a constant, and correct fueling at all throttle settings. Only way to do this is with the AT added. Mind you, that with the LC-1, you retain the poor stock correction, only at small throttle openings, and wot., and more importantly, you cannot individualize where you want the fuel to go at what rpm/throttle settings, etc, as the preloaded maps are broad, and not adjustable. It looks to me like a booster plug on steroids..... But I understand, that if the funds are not there, it would be better than nothing.
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ebrabaek screwed with this post 04-03-2013 at 09:33 AM
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Old 04-03-2013, 08:33 AM   #162
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Are you sure of that? Both the LC1 and PW use a wide band oxygen sensor. Even though the afr may be different than stock, my understanding of closed loop means the oxygen sensor is in play. With a band width 5 times larger, I would expect the bike to be in closed loop more often.

The LC1 changes the actual electronic signal to the ECU from the oxygen sensor to one that results in different map signal to the injectors. The PC changes the injector signal without any changing of the oxygen sensor signal. It is an add on you dial it in.

The PC can change the signal in open loop. the LC1 relys on the ECU to adapt its own mapping in open loop based on what experience it has in closed loop.

That last statement raises a question in my mind regarding Ethanol. If an oxygen sensor can enrichen the mixture to offset the leaness caused by Ethanol and the ECU can adapt in open mode, why is it an issue?
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Old 04-03-2013, 09:03 AM   #163
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Are you sure of that? Both the LC1 and PW use a wide band oxygen sensor. Even though the afr may be different than stock, my understanding of closed loop means the oxygen sensor is in play. With a band width 5 times larger, I would expect the bike to be in closed loop more often.

The LC1 changes the actual electronic signal to the ECU from the oxygen sensor to one that results in different map signal to the injectors. The PC changes the injector signal without any changing of the oxygen sensor signal. It is an add on you dial it in.

The PC can change the signal in open loop. the LC1 relys on the ECU to adapt its own mapping in open loop based on what experience it has in closed loop.

That last statement raises a question in my mind regarding Ethanol. If an oxygen sensor can enrichen the mixture to offset the leaness caused by Ethanol and the ECU can adapt in open mode, why is it an issue?
Maybe I'm not up to speed quite yet here, what is the LC-1?
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:15 AM   #164
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http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lc1.php
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:14 PM   #165
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An oxygen sensor reads oxygen levels. Doesn't matter what fuel you are burning as long as it isn't fouling the sensor.
Extra oxygen means it can add more fuel, too little and it needs to reduce fuel. Not a lot more complicated than that...
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