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Old 05-19-2013, 11:09 AM   #286
ebrabaek OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaspare View Post
Be careful: during acceleration the RPM threshold is always the same, no matter if you are WOT or just moving smoothly the throttle... these RPMs are very ripetitive... I'm sure the RPM measurements leads the control.
Fantastic work Gaspare...... this is most valuable to the study......
It does seems like it is rpm driven, with the hard numbers you derived.
Thanks.....
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Old 05-19-2013, 01:08 PM   #287
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SAS is now disabled..... AT tables zeroed..... a little GS house cleaning...... now for a ride, to refill the tables..... Full report coming inside an hr.....Including the very complex, and scientific approach to disabling the SAS.....
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Old 05-19-2013, 01:39 PM   #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebrabaek View Post
SAS is now disabled..... AT tables zeroed..... a little GS house cleaning...... now for a ride, to refill the tables..... Full report coming inside an hr.....Including the very complex, and scientific approach to disabling the SAS.....
Read the first sentence, said to myself "I gotta ask him to show how he disabled it", was beat to the punch by the last sentence :)
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Old 05-19-2013, 01:42 PM   #289
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cheers, Erling.

Regarding my clarification (RPM related), was only to avoid any misunderstanding about the survey method (bad English, sorry) - but the observation from Roger

Quote:
is seems that sas may be tied to throttle angle
is definitely right.
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Old 05-19-2013, 02:05 PM   #290
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Verdict is in, and it is for sure not what I expected. There is not doubt in my mind that the bike has less TQ/HP with the SAS disabled. I kno....I know.... But it is the sad truth. With my configuration, the throttle tone has changed, sounds less snappy. ( for you power tuners out there, the crisp, snappy tone is replaced with a mulled, muffled less crisp, and quieter sound) I have changed nothing else, but before doing the complete write up, I am back out in the garage to ENABLE the SAS..... Cant believe I just said that..... did, I just say that...... I have double, and tripple verified that AT is active, but hands down, it aint running right, specially at higher RPM. So I will report back. Joel might be laughing right now, if he is stalking this thread, and I might owe him a beer.
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Old 05-19-2013, 02:14 PM   #291
roger 04 rt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebrabaek View Post
SAS is now disabled..... AT tables zeroed..... a little GS house cleaning...... now for a ride, to refill the tables..... Full report coming inside an hr.....Including the very complex, and scientific approach to disabling the SAS.....
Hey, I thought you were going to go a step at a time.

If you want a fresh start put +10 in all the 13.2 cells and put +6 in all the 13.8 cells. That will speed autotune a lot.
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Old 05-19-2013, 02:25 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by roger 04 rt View Post
Hey, I thought you were going to go a step at a time.

If you want a fresh start put +10 in all the 13.2 cells and put +6 in all the 13.8 cells. That will speed autotune a lot.
I did...... You cannot judge the results, with the then disabled SAS unless you zero out the Trim tables, as the AT will adhere to the old trim table, until it learns. I rode 20 miles under all power conditions. The AT generates the new trim tables right away, and I have the 20 miles test tables...... Zero out tables again, and verify if the bike is back to running "good. Be back soon.
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Old 05-19-2013, 02:59 PM   #293
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Ahhhhhhhhh..... power is back...... Pictures, and full write up in the process.....Stay tuned. LOL... Stay tuned.....
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Old 05-19-2013, 03:03 PM   #294
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Old 05-19-2013, 03:27 PM   #295
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OK... So I will take this in a chronological order. I set out to disable the SAS. Found the little smurf....



An M6 shank bolt with the threads cut off fit perfect into the nipple on the SAS valve.....




A dap of silicone......




Installed.......




Hose back on......



Then time to clean up some of all the bolts.... They have been off, and onn, many times, and threads were in bad shape..... M5-0.8.



Then came the ride. AT trims tables were zeroed out, so I started with a clean sheet. I discovered that the AT fills in the trim tables instantly, and keeps updating them, so I thought let it up date for a mile or two..... But as soon as I started the motor, I could hear that the tone had changed. The nice crisp, snappy tone was now muffled. Well then, on I went. It became immediately known to me, that the motor was not developing the power as it did before. The rush when you WOT it, in any gear ( except first....) was gone, as the bike now was docile...... Bummer. Rode for a little over 20 miles....combined riding..... looooots of power pulls, and specially on the FRY, at 60 mph, the bike fell flat going WOT..... Grrrrrrr...... returned, and downloaded the AT trims..... Note that I did change the Base map replaced the 20% with 5%, but that should/did have no affect..... New base map, success, still no off idle hop.....



Then the trim with SAS disabled.....



I am no rocket scientist, but I do believe that if you do something to a bike, and it then runs like crap, ...... Undo what you just did, to verify, that it is in fact to be blamed......Thats what I did. I removed the SS nut, thus re-enabling the SAS, and went for a ride..... First I re- zeroed the AT trim tables, so we have apples to apples comparison..... Whooooeeeeee... Power was back, and bike rode like normal....pulling strong, at any power setting, and gears, and speed..... Here is the new AT trim table after the same 20 mile ride with the SAS enabled...... Tone is back to normal crisp, at any power setting, including idle.....



I hope to discover why this is, as the SAS as mentioned by knowledgeable people states that it is a no go, or con for the DJ PC-5/AT combo. I can verify just the opposite. The difference is VERY noticeable.....Not just a little. The bike falls on it's a$$. That said as I have said from the beginning, I am not the wizard with regards to this yet, but I will not argue with success. I tried something, and the effect was detrimental to the operation to the bike. There were no error messages received, triggering the Warning on the bike, and all other operations were normal. I now leave this open for debate..... I think I owe Joel a beer..... Another one.....As it appears he was right on, that this SAS is good for the power of the bike..... Not just the EPA. Mind you I have Arrow headers, and open pipe.

Cheers....
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Old 05-19-2013, 03:47 PM   #296
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Could it be that if the SAS were disabled during the intial tuning, you would have seen better results?
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Old 05-19-2013, 03:49 PM   #297
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Also, I wonder if the ECU is shifting to some kind of "safe mode" when the SAS is unplugged, as if a resistor or something needs to be put in line to make the ECU think it's still plugged in and working(?).
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Old 05-19-2013, 03:54 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by JRose View Post
Could it be that if the SAS were disabled during the intial tuning, you would have seen better results?
No, as the original tune really was a way to verify that it was working. You notice that the base map is a zero map, but that the AT table ( AFR) was derived from that tune..... And perhaps it could be tweaked, as it was done with the Dyno's sniffer...... Who knows, but the same AFR table was used in both riding tests, and the difference was astonishing, to say the least.
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Old 05-19-2013, 03:57 PM   #299
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Originally Posted by JRose View Post
Also, I wonder if the ECU is shifting to some kind of "safe mode" when the SAS is unplugged, as if a resistor or something needs to be put in line to make the ECU think it's still plugged in and working(?).
I am not sure..... Grrrrr.... I really should have the GS-911.... But as I am studying the trim tables with the two runs..... It appears that with the SAS disabled, the AT is adding more fuel above 40% throttle, than with the SAS enabled.... Need to study the tables......and have a look, but it was obvious.
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Old 05-19-2013, 05:37 PM   #300
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Erling, the best way will be another trip to the dyno. Validate what you are feeling with numbers, get them to do the tweaking with the SAS disabled and then compare numbers.. Sad but true
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