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Old 05-21-2013, 05:48 AM   #331
ebrabaek OP
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Originally Posted by roger 04 rt View Post
Sounds like you're continuing to think this through. I'll be interested to here what your tuner says about SAS. RB
Ha ha, you know one of the things that came to my mind instantly, is my tuners comment. After the gains we acknowledged on the dyno in each stage..... First, stock.....open pipe.... headers....then PC-5/AT..... we were expecting more, I think. We only gained a total of 6 RWHP........which perhaps is not bad, but I think he and I was expecting more of that as the result of the PC-5/AT system. Now I am wondering if the SAS could be to blame. I know that Gaspare stated that his SAS was not active at WOT, but rather than think at it as a SAS on in certain rpm range, and thus when it is off, the PC-5/AT is working fine...... I am starting to think that it is not that simple, and DJ seems to back that up, after out conversation yesterday. When the Lambda sensor confuses the AT it simply is not running right. So in essence, I wonder if there would/will be more power to have...... Hmmmmmm..... It's not about the power..... It's not about the power.... It's not...Never mind.
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Old 05-21-2013, 06:28 AM   #332
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Erling, the problem is in the first three gears SAS is ON all the rpm range up to redline (OFF only during the throttle closing down to 3000 rpm) - and in 4th+5yh+6th is always ON below (average) 2700 rpm.
How about O2 readings from 3000 to overrev?!

I'm really not informed about a possible gear-related AT activation... if not (think so: maps could be gear-related, not AT activation), in the shoes of your AT module, I could experiment a big headache...
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Old 05-21-2013, 07:57 AM   #333
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Gaspare, how does one reflash the BMSK?

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Old 05-21-2013, 08:59 AM   #334
ebrabaek OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaspare View Post
Erling, the problem is in the first three gears SAS is ON all the rpm range up to redline (OFF only during the throttle closing down to 3000 rpm) - and in 4th+5yh+6th is always ON below (average) 2700 rpm.
How about O2 readings from 3000 to overrev?!

I'm really not informed about a possible gear-related AT activation... if not (think so: maps could be gear-related, not AT activation), in the shoes of your AT module, I could experiment a big headache...
The pc-5 does have gear input, but it 8GS app does not use it..... Perhaps the dyno runs were good then...... as we did 5'th gear from about 3000 rpm to the limiter....
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Old 05-21-2013, 09:07 AM   #335
jscottyk
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Originally Posted by terryckdbf View Post
Gaspare, how does one reflash the BMSK?

Terry
Here's one way!

Yes, I realize it's for the S1000R but all this discussion of PC-V, Autotune and Wideband O2 sensors got me questioning, "How are the S1000RR tuners working with the ECU. There's no way they are building full-blown race bikes for AMA and WSB without full access to all of the ECUs function. Are they using aftermarket race only ECU or working with the BMS-K (yes, the F800GS and the S1000RR share the same base ECU) and I did some digging.

Has anybody worked with one of these?
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Old 05-21-2013, 09:24 AM   #336
roger 04 rt
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If we're dreaming, the best product would be remap, maintain closed loop and SAS, with LC-1 to hold richer cruise afr.
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Old 05-21-2013, 09:37 AM   #337
LukasM
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Originally Posted by terryckdbf View Post
Gaspare, how does one reflash the BMSK?

Terry

You have to remove and open up the ECU, and then you need a special 10 pin probe and mounting stand to connect with the BDM interface on the PCB, and the right software to modify the data in the flash memory.

Most chip tuners should have the right equipment as the same Motorola processor is used on a lot of cars, not sure about the BMW motorcycle specific software requirements, though...
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Old 05-21-2013, 09:48 AM   #338
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jsottyk, lukasm

Thanks.

Terry
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Old 05-21-2013, 10:20 AM   #339
terryckdbf
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WOW! Datalogger $977, Calibration kit $157, Enable Code $1940, Total without labor $3,074

My LC-1 is looking better and better.

Terry
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Old 05-21-2013, 10:24 AM   #340
jscottyk
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Originally Posted by terryckdbf View Post
WOW! Datalogger $977, Calibration kit $157, Enable Code $1940, Total without labor $3,074

My LC-1 is looking better and better.

Terry
I know, right!?
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Old 05-21-2013, 10:37 AM   #341
dpm
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BDM tools don't have to be expensive. Just need someone to decode and locate the maps?
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Old 05-21-2013, 11:01 AM   #342
jscottyk
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BDM tools don't have to be expensive. Just need someone to decode and locate the maps?
At the end of the day, that's what you are paying for when you take the BMW HP route. The front door to the BMS-K and the software that supports the tuning.

With the BDM approach connecting to the unit is relatively easy but you are completely in the dark with regards to the software.

Still, too rich for my blood. I'll probably be using one of Roger's wideband O2 sensor options once they are available.
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Old 05-21-2013, 01:19 PM   #343
Gaspare
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Originally Posted by LukasM View Post
You have to remove and open up the ECU, and then you need a special 10 pin probe and mounting stand to connect with the BDM interface on the PCB, and the right software to modify the data in the flash memory.

Most chip tuners should have the right equipment as the same Motorola processor is used on a lot of cars, not sure about the BMW motorcycle specific software requirements, though...
Right! Just my way.

It takes some experience to properly understand where is what ad how to modify, but my friend is skilled enough, and the wish to reflash his own 650GS have done the rest.
By the way: the market cost is about the same as a muffler.

About the SAS & reflashing, I've to say it is necessary to disable the system because - looking for torque - the amount of unburnt fuel is rised up to the point to have sometimes an F 800 Kalašnikov!
Only with SAS disabled, the situation is back to a sane normality...
Actually I have a bit leaner curve rather than the very peak performance one, but anyway some gurgling was still there...

PS - Pity me and Erling are so far away to each other: could be interesting to compare the results... even dyno tests are not that good for the purpose because of slippage, and many others variables.
Surely I have the advantage of ignition timing accessibility - and it's not a little!
We modified a sort of acceleration pump and the throttle management, too, and without idle-hop it is a real pleasure to have such a readyness onto the control...

Gaspare screwed with this post 05-21-2013 at 01:34 PM Reason: PS
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Old 05-21-2013, 03:02 PM   #344
ebrabaek OP
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Originally Posted by Gaspare View Post
Right! Just my way.

It takes some experience to properly understand where is what ad how to modify, but my friend is skilled enough, and the wish to reflash his own 650GS have done the rest.
By the way: the market cost is about the same as a muffler.

About the SAS & reflashing, I've to say it is necessary to disable the system because - looking for torque - the amount of unburnt fuel is rised up to the point to have sometimes an F 800 Kalašnikov!
Only with SAS disabled, the situation is back to a sane normality...
Actually I have a bit leaner curve rather than the very peak performance one, but anyway some gurgling was still there...

PS - Pity me and Erling are so far away to each other: could be interesting to compare the results... even dyno tests are not that good for the purpose because of slippage, and many others variables.
Surely I have the advantage of ignition timing accessibility - and it's not a little!
We modified a sort of acceleration pump and the throttle management, too, and without idle-hop it is a real pleasure to have such a readyness onto the control...
I would love to dyno together.....and agree thqt it is a bummer that I dont have control over timing. I somehow feel that the PC-5 app for the 8GS is only half a $$...... as the pc-5 clearly is only running at say 20% capacityn lagging water...gear....timing etc..... I will be closer next week however....as my fam and I. Il be in Denmark from may 30 to june 21
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Old 05-21-2013, 03:53 PM   #345
ebrabaek OP
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So I spoke with my tuner, and with Gaspares knowledge regarding the activity of the SAS, he was sure there were something else going wrong here. It should run perhaps a little worse, if any, but not fall flat like it did. So here is a few items to mull over. First thing he asked, was if I had disconnected the crank case vent in stead. Guess he have seen that act up, if plugged. I think Gaspare just unplugged his..... Yes...???? could there be some confusing of the BMS-K, with a solid plug in there. Mind you, Gaspare did his with a reflash of the BMS-K..... Mind you Joes knows his stuff on the BMW's, and even though I disagree with a few things he said, about power in general, he was very adament, about the plugging of the SAS is detrimental to the 8GS. So far, he is the only one here with the knowledge to dispute that theory..... JOOOOOEEEELLLLLLLLLLLL..... need you..... fornt and center soldier...... Pleazzzzzzzz....
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