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Old 05-22-2013, 09:01 AM   #391
ebrabaek OP
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Location: El Paso,NM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roger 04 rt View Post
Anything is possible but why not let Autotune take us in that direction ...
I like that idea. I only have two concerns, as the case was made by the tech, at DJ..... They mentioned that you don't want to start too lean, as the AT O2 value seen, has to be from 11.5-16. Anything outside that, and it will not correct. Second....if it in fact takes 30+% fuel, and I have my AT set at max 25%, then it takes time to fill the slot correctly. Those arguments are from DJ, and merely just repeated by me. Nothing else....
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Old 05-22-2013, 10:10 AM   #392
terryckdbf
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The table in post # 369 is not startng too lean.
The bike taking some time to adjust is better than taking a big swing at it.

Remember, it is not just adjusting to the PC V input, it is adjusting to air temp, pressure, injector wear, oil temp, cylinder temp, and many other things. At least we hope it is, not knowing what happens when it does not see a Lambda input. These things should take some time. I am looking forward to the final settings, I would be shocked if it is anywhere near 30% of added fuel. Even your table after the Dyno tune wasn't near 30% and that was with the added air from the SAS. Take away air and we should be able to take away fuel to end up at the same place, in theory. I'm at 8% and my bike is a completely different bike.

Just saying.

Terry
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Old 05-22-2013, 10:36 AM   #393
ebrabaek OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terryckdbf View Post
The table in post # 369 is not startng too lean.
The bike taking some time to adjust is better than taking a big swing at it.

Remember, it is not just adjusting to the PC V input, it is adjusting to air temp, pressure, injector wear, oil temp, cylinder temp, and many other things. At least we hope it is, not knowing what happens when it does not see a Lambda input. These things should take some time. I am looking forward to the final settings, I would be shocked if it is anywhere near 30% of added fuel. Even your table after the Dyno tune wasn't near 30% and that was with the added air from the SAS. Take away air and we should be able to take away fuel to end up at the same place, in theory. I'm at 8% and my bike is a completely different bike.

Just saying.

Terry
At this point both you, and I are speculating weather or not it is to lean or not. We both think it is ok, along with Roger, but we should not ignore Gaspares assessment regarding the higher amount of fuel needed, and the assessment from Dynojet. I know both you and roger are Chevy men, and we are discussing a Ford here, but if DJ points to that, then rather than blow it off, I'd like to keep such in mind.
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Old 05-22-2013, 10:40 AM   #394
ebrabaek OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terryckdbf View Post
The table in post # 369 is not startng too lean.
The bike taking some time to adjust is better than taking a big swing at it.

Remember, it is not just adjusting to the PC V input, it is adjusting to air temp, pressure, injector wear, oil temp, cylinder temp, and many other things. At least we hope it is, not knowing what happens when it does not see a Lambda input. These things should take some time. I am looking forward to the final settings, I would be shocked if it is anywhere near 30% of added fuel. Even your table after the Dyno tune wasn't near 30% and that was with the added air from the SAS. Take away air and we should be able to take away fuel to end up at the same place, in theory. I'm at 8% and my bike is a completely different bike.

Just saying.

Terry
Well.... we don't know that for sure either, as there were several 25% in there which is max for the AT ( We set the AT limit to 25%) we don't know if that cell is demanding 26.....30....or 50% for that matter.....
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Old 05-22-2013, 10:50 AM   #395
ebrabaek OP
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Here is the 10% base map That I will load after lunch...... I will let AT do the work for me. Let you know how it behaves.....
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Old 05-22-2013, 12:16 PM   #396
ebrabaek OP
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Map loaded..... Firmware upgraded from 1.8.3 to 1.9.2.... Time to ride.......
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Old 05-22-2013, 12:57 PM   #397
ebrabaek OP
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After 20 miles......not impressed...... rough idle as well......more riding......
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Old 05-22-2013, 01:40 PM   #398
roger 04 rt
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Originally Posted by ebrabaek View Post
After 20 miles......not impressed...... rough idle as well......more riding......
EB you're a trooper, stay at it.
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Old 05-22-2013, 02:07 PM   #399
ebrabaek OP
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Originally Posted by roger 04 rt View Post
EB you're a trooper, stay at it.
Thanks.... I believe there is hope.... Stay tuned...
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Old 05-22-2013, 02:24 PM   #400
ebrabaek OP
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So I would like first to provide a thesis. I believe the reason the PC-5/AT ran like crap with the SAS disabled, and a zero map, is/was because of the motor running too lean. I know I have Rogers attention right this moment....., and are sure he will either bless, or dunk it...... Reason I say this, is that on the second trial this morning with a now 10% base map, it did not run as bad as yesterday. It did not run as good as with the SAS ON either though, but not as bad. The tone was not as mush, as yesterday, but not quite crisp either....somewhere in the middle. So in taking this thesis a step further...... Here are the trim levels after a 45 mile ride with anything from WOT pulls from 3000 rpm, to ballanced neutral torque.....ie. varied riding......Mind you these values are in addition to the 10% base map..... Lots of fuel going in there, just as Gaspare noticed as well.



Then I simply accepted all trims, and very importantly pushed the " send table" and the new base map was created, and stored in the PC-5.......



Some of those numbers are big, but to assist in my thesis, well outside of the plus minus 25% the AT is set at. Here is why I think it was ok with the SAS ON. The AT sees more air present at the O2 sensor, and schedules more fuel, running richer....erroneously, but never the less richer, this being ok. Is this by chance.... Perhaps, but I think it is plausible. So I went for a ride with the now new base map, and it became evident to me, that I now was very close to where I was with the SAS on. The tone had even shifted, to the point that it is now crisp, and snappy.....ahhhhhh... the sweet sound of a proper tuned bike..... The bike is still not behaving as well from about 7000-redline...... But I assume that is because I don't spend much time there, and it is hard to get good pulls on the freeway..... even we have a 75 mhp..... It is full of idiots in the fast lane....going....ehhhhh slow...... Here is the trim values with the new base map, and about 10 miles riding..... A much more doccile job, and seems like the AT is not goine full screw. On thing though.... I now have a rough idle, that is unacceptable..... It is hopping, and dancing, and you can really hear the cam chain slip slapping due to the roughness. Idle AFR is now 15.6, whereas before it was 13.9-14-2.... Perhaps that is the reason for the rough idle. The rough idle does not begin until at idle for about 5-10 seconds....... New trim map ( was NOT accepted to the PC-5).....



What say you gentlemen......:fre aky
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ebrabaek screwed with this post 05-22-2013 at 02:34 PM
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Old 05-22-2013, 02:44 PM   #401
terryckdbf
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Roger will be along and give his knowledge, far more than I have.

In the mean time, Gaspare, when you flashed the ECU did ya'll make any changes other than fueling? In other words, did ya'll mess with the timing at all?

Maybe we can compare a total reflash of Gaspare's ECU to a stock ECU with PC V but I am not sure. Roger?

Good to see you happier, it will get better.

Terry
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Old 05-22-2013, 03:28 PM   #402
ebrabaek OP
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Originally Posted by terryckdbf View Post
Roger will be along and give his knowledge, far more than I have.

In the mean time, Gaspare, when you flashed the ECU did ya'll make any changes other than fueling? In other words, did ya'll mess with the timing at all?

Maybe we can compare a total reflash of Gaspare's ECU to a stock ECU with PC V but I am not sure. Roger?

Good to see you happier, it will get better.

Terry
I believe I read that he had quite the change actually.....
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Old 05-22-2013, 03:34 PM   #403
ebrabaek OP
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Is there any chance the two hoses coming from the crank case goes into a T, and gets air through the SAS solenoid, or does anyone know if the Crank case vent hose draws it's own air from the airbox....????
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Old 05-22-2013, 03:56 PM   #404
terryckdbf
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Originally Posted by ebrabaek View Post
Is there any chance the two hoses coming from the crank case goes into a T, and gets air through the SAS solenoid, or does anyone know if the Crank case vent hose draws it's own air from the airbox....????
I would think the Crankcase vent hose vents into the air box, meaning the air box pulls air from the crankcase and burns it in the combustion process. Another environmental thingy.

Terry
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Old 05-22-2013, 04:06 PM   #405
ebrabaek OP
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Originally Posted by terryckdbf View Post
I would think the Crankcase vent hose vents into the air box, meaning the air box pulls air from the crankcase and burns it in the combustion process. Another environmental thingy.

Terry
Yeppers... Got that, but have anyone seen two drafts from the airbox...... Just trying to tie any loose ends....
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