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Old 03-19-2013, 06:24 PM   #76
DoWorkSon
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Not sure if you mentioned it...

Did you run this with the stock headers? Or custom headers and arrow headers?

If only .5 gain with arrow's over stock, that might save a lot of people some money
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:31 PM   #77
ebrabaek OP
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The fine folks can be reached here..... Ask for Eddie Sisneros.

http://www.epicmotosports.com/index.htm

Eddie is a Dynojet retailer, and can sell the pc-5 with AT with the map tuned for mine already preloaded. Mind you not that I have headers, as the 13.2 a/f ratio will adjust, unlike the stock map. He can also install it for you, if you are in the neighborhood. A few things to consider. You need to lift the airbox up to gain access to the injectors. Plastic has to come off to gain access to the airbox. Stock O2 sensor is replaced with the AT unit..... Those are the main r/r items.
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:38 PM   #78
ebrabaek OP
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Originally Posted by DoWorkSon View Post
Not sure if you mentioned it...

Did you run this with the stock headers? Or custom headers and arrow headers?

If only .5 gain with arrow's over stock, that might save a lot of people some money
Yes.... first two runs are with the stock headers........ then the latter 2 runs with the arrow headers. The reason for only .5 hp, is simply the inability of the stock ecu to increase the fuel. But yes... We were surprised as well. The question is how much the gain with the pc-5/AT if stock headers were left in place. If I was doing this myself.....I would start without the headers. This is now a 500 pound trials bike. Cant wait until the recluse clutch arrives next week......
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:21 PM   #79
jengel451
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Originally Posted by ebrabaek View Post
Yes.... first two runs are with the stock headers........ then the latter 2 runs with the arrow headers.
This actually doesn't surprise me at all. Manufacturers have come a long way, the days of bolting a header on and getting 15hp left about 7-8 years ago.

For my race R1, the Akro Titanium header only could muster 1-2 HP over stock and honestly didn't change the power curve one little bit.
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Old 03-20-2013, 12:00 AM   #80
mousitsas
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Nice results...I am happy to know autotune works, such a fantastic gadget.
SInce you now have it, I would suggest to look into airbox modifications. I suspect that you will gain a few hp by letting more air in there. Over in orange crush we have seen big improvements by working on the inlet side of things. In fact there were more gains there than in the exhaust.
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Old 03-20-2013, 02:10 AM   #81
Gaspare
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About the headers: I do confirm.
Actually they're suitable mainly to re-shape the torque delivery... with QD headers (because of the joint closer to exhaust valves) I gained a lot at low and midrange, but I've lost about 10 km/h on top speed (therefore less peak power).
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Old 03-20-2013, 06:45 AM   #82
mousitsas
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Originally Posted by Gaspare View Post
About the headers: I do confirm.
Actually they're suitable mainly to re-shape the torque delivery... with QD headers (because of the joint closer to exhaust valves) I gained a lot at low and midrange, but I've lost about 10 km/h on top speed (therefore less peak power).
However, unless you make sure you have identical AFR for both, you can never tell what exactly the differences are...
For example it is very likely you lost 10km/hr because you are running too lean at WOT.
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Old 03-20-2013, 06:53 AM   #83
ebrabaek OP
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We think the reason for the headers are minimal is the inability of the stock ecu to correct any more fuel, as when we did the " third run" it was without the PC-5/AT. One important factor to consider. There have been no loss, of torque, or HP, anywhere. Many states they loose " low end torque"... etc. It is now just that it rips better at higher rpm, thus the low end more transparent. As indicated there was no loss of hp/tq. ....anywhere. I have not ridden it a lot, and is trailering back south starting today, but the few things that stood out was the perfect low rpm handling..... very smooth powerband overall, with minimal dead spots.........phenomenal throttle response. Regarding the intake..... I agree, but will have to admit that we forgot. We did the last dyno run with out the plastics, so we could lift the lid...... but forgot...and then it was the end of the day. The good thing is now with the pc-5/at in place, it is just a matter of lifting the lid on any dyno. I will see if I can find one down here in El Paso,TX.......I would like to add the following. There was a thread somewhere on advr, asking what is their single best mod on the bike. The pc-5/at winns in my corner.....hands down....and I have plenty of $hitooldes on it. But the now corrected fueling, will make it sooooo much easier in the tecno sections, where I always got sore in my torso from wrestling her up and over. With the addition of the Recluse auto clutch next week, I feel there is a winner, with just the suspension to go.
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Old 03-20-2013, 06:57 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by mousitsas View Post
However, unless you make sure you have identical AFR for both, you can never tell what exactly the differences are...
For example it is very likely you lost 10km/hr because you are running too lean at WOT.
Agreed. We saw crazy lean indications with headers, and open muffler, way beyond max fuel economy. I was glad I did not do headers before the pc-5/at combo. Mind you, we only published one graph for each condition, but did about 4-5 run's. Dangerously lean. The only way to judge the results un biased.... is with the pc-5/at active.
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Old 03-20-2013, 07:00 AM   #85
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Uhhhmmmmm... one more note...... We tried to get a good pickup on the rpm, but it was not triggering good, so speed in stead. But the runs was initiated at 2000 rpm, and straight to the limiter..... Hitting it every time. It was hard to watch, as I have never hit it before.... but wait until the runs publish...... Quite the thing..... She was flogged.....
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Old 03-20-2013, 07:13 AM   #86
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Another note..... we used the switched power outlet to power the pc-5. Unfortunately it placed just enough drain on that circuit so the canbus leaves it active, thinking there is a charger on it, thus draining the battery. Anyone with a electrical diagram that will share a key switched wire with me....?????
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Old 03-20-2013, 08:03 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by ebrabaek View Post
Another note..... we used the switched power outlet to power the pc-5. Unfortunately it placed just enough drain on that circuit so the canbus leaves it active, thinking there is a charger on it, thus draining the battery. Anyone with a electrical diagram that will share a key switched wire with me....?????
Hi,

I believe that installing a relay, connected to the switched outlet, will fix that problem, as it will be triggered by only a few mA. Don't forget also to install a fuse!
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Old 03-20-2013, 09:16 AM   #88
mousitsas
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Originally Posted by ebrabaek View Post
.... The good thing is now with the pc-5/at in place, it is just a matter of lifting the lid on any dyno. I will see if I can find one down here in El Paso,TX.......
Why do you need a dyno? With autotune, the road is your dyno and a better one as such!
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Old 03-20-2013, 09:16 AM   #89
battlecattle
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Originally Posted by ebrabaek View Post
Another note..... we used the switched power outlet to power the pc-5. Unfortunately it placed just enough drain on that circuit so the canbus leaves it active, thinking there is a charger on it, thus draining the battery. Anyone with a electrical diagram that will share a key switched wire with me....?????
Go with the delayed (60sec) switched source above the battery. There is a BMW connector and I use it as a switched source for my fuse block.
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Old 03-20-2013, 11:16 AM   #90
Gaspare
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Hi, friends... here you are the wiring diagram of our parallel:



Then, about the lean condition: I've carried out a mod onto IAT (quite similar to booster plug) able to enrich evenly 7% along the whole of the rpm range.
After this, the ECU leaned down again to AFR target thru λ sensor... So, don't think the bike (with OEM muffler & QD headers) is actually crazy lean.
It's simply on the BMW targeted AFR, that's - you're right - anyway clearly below the optimum.
The way is to change this target and design a new baseline, remapping.
Work in progress...

Gaspare screwed with this post 03-20-2013 at 11:52 AM
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