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Old 02-20-2013, 04:46 PM   #31
dwj - Donnie OP
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I have my moto and it is running great! Now for the rest of the story.

When I brought the moto to the shop it had not ran in three days. Actually it would crank up on one cylinder and barely run for five seconds to a minute before dying. Occasionally the second cylinder would hit for one second. Last Wednesday when they hooked the computer up to it, it ran fine. They balanced the throttle bodies. They have continued to try and get their computer to communicate with the moto's computer. I was even told that they took the computer off of another moto and put it on my bike, but the two computers still would not communicate. This confirmed to them that there was a bad wire some where. I have also been told that they changed some relays and cleaned up some wiring. My ABS that has not worked since the first guys in Mexico, is now working. They adjusted the throttle position sensor with a volt meter yesterday or today. They had been trying to do it through the computer, I explained yesterday how to do it with a volt meter.

I was told today at 2:00 that the moto would be ready at 5:00. I ask Jose the Tour Guide, a great fellow who speaks very good English, what was the problem and he told me the shop would tell me when I picked up the moto. At 5:00 I went to get the moto. Jose brought it down, I received no info from a mechanic. Jose said that they had changed some relays, adjusted some things and cleaned up some wires, but that they had not found the real problem. They had not had enough time to find it. Today was the 9th day the moto has been in their shop. Jose feels the moto will be fine for the trip to Panama.

They had me sigh a form saying that they had not found the problem, they had washed the moto and my bill was ZERO! Is my moto dependable? At least the Hall Sensor and the computer has been ruled out. Did some freak thing happen and has corrected itself mysteriously. Did something they did correct the problem? Did the four hour truck ride to Guatemala City shake some thing the right way that had gotten out of sync?

The throttle bodies were way out of adjustment from the first mechanics and was idling poorly. After the Hall Sensor was replaced and at some time before leaving for Guatemala I adjusted the TBs by ear and had it idling much better. At the same time, I could see from the position of the throttle position sensor that it was way off from the position it normally sat when I adjusted it. I could not remember exactly where it had been, but I put it in a more central position. Could this have caused a problem?

What are y'alls thoughts on any or all of this?

BTW, I would have much rather received a reasonable bill and been told they corrected the problem. With no parts involved, I was still expecting as high as $1,000 for the repairs and would have been happy to pay $500.
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Old 02-20-2013, 05:46 PM   #32
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I really like that shop. We were lost in Guatemala City and somehow ended up there. After having a set of Touratech Hard Parts installed, for free, on two bikes, Jose lead us on a short cut through the city and on our way. The manager told us of a border crossing between Guatemala and Honduras that is not on any maps and it was good as well. Overall, it is a quality shop.
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Old 02-21-2013, 05:34 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eakins
found this here http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141751

Dealer Information: Research and write down the location and contact information for the closest dealership (of your brand MC) in the countries you will be traveling. There are BMW motorcycle dealerships in Mexico City, Guatemala City, San Salvador (El Salvador), San Jose (Costa Rica), and Panama City (Panama). If you have this info before you start, it will save time, and hassle, if you need it on the road. Also, develop a good relationship with your local dealer at home. Have their phone number and fax number, and/or email address. If you need a part on the road, they will most likely be the easiest to contact and the fastest way to get something in the mail/courier to you. Remember that courier services (FedEx, UPS, DHL) frequently have figured out how to easily clear customs, which may be more difficult if you ship a high dollar part thru the postal service, so their extra cost may be a good thing in the long run.


I have the info for dealerships in Central America. I plan to stay in the general area of Guatemala City for the next few days. If I experience no problems during this time, San Salvador is the next stop. From there I will take a direct route to Costa Rica. Since the problem started, it has occurred every single day of use. If I make it through these days without incident, I will cautiously assume that something has occurred that has eliminated the problem
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Old 02-21-2013, 07:21 AM   #34
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I went out and cranked the moto this morning. It cranked up and run well for a couple of minutes. Then it started to stumble with the RPMs varying. It continued to have trouble for a few more minutes. If I tried turned the throttle it would go dead, but it would crank back up with no problem. After it hit two bars in an instant, it went to perfection. What are the symptoms of a bad throttle position sensor? It may be bad, but since the throttle bodies have been balanced it is easier to deal with. A year or so back while in Alaska, the connection for my oil temp gauge got dirty. This caused the computer to think the moto was cold and made the fuel mixture very rich. My MPG went from 40 to 33, plus the moto was difficult to start. Maybe something like this is causing the problem.

Will a bad throttle position sensor keep the moto from running? Or is it like the oil temp problem I mentioned above, just a pain in the butt till corrected? Thanks!
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Old 02-21-2013, 08:16 AM   #35
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You wrote that the "Hall Sensor is rule out".
Are you 100% sure on that right?
because for me still that is the problem.
You also mention that the shop could not connect to two different computers.
Any chance that the problem be in the 'connector wire' under the seat that goes to the computer? (could be a stupid question... I'm just picking on options for two computers being unresponsive.)
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Old 02-21-2013, 09:59 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strsout View Post
You wrote that the "Hall Sensor is rule out".
Are you 100% sure on that right?
because for me still that is the problem.
You also mention that the shop could not connect to two different computers.
Any chance that the problem be in the 'connector wire' under the seat that goes to the computer? (could be a stupid question... I'm just picking on options for two computers being unresponsive.)
They told me the Hall Sensor and computer was OK. They think because the second computer would not talk with their computer that the is a bad wire some where. Keep in mind, as far as I know, the moto ran OK the entire time it was in their shop. Concerning the Hall Sensor, all I can tell you is that the current or recent past problem is different in it's symptoms than the problems experienced before the Hall Sensor was replaced. You may be correct in your opinion, I don't know.
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Old 02-21-2013, 10:05 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwj - Donnie
I went out and cranked the moto this morning. It cranked up and run well for a couple of minutes. Then it started to stumble with the RPMs varying. It continued to have trouble for a few more minutes. If I tried turned the throttle it would go dead, but it would crank back up with no problem. After it hit two bars in an instant, it went to perfection. What are the symptoms of a bad throttle position sensor? It may be bad, but since the throttle bodies have been balanced it is easier to deal with. A year or so back while in Alaska, the connection for my oil temp gauge got dirty. This caused the computer to think the moto was cold and made the fuel mixture very rich. My MPG went from 40 to 33, plus the moto was difficult to start. Maybe something like this is causing the problem.

Will a bad throttle position sensor keep the moto from running? Or is it like the oil temp problem I mentioned above, just a pain in the butt till corrected? Thanks!


I should have also ask, how do you test the throttle position sensor?
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Old 02-21-2013, 10:41 AM   #38
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left you a note @ IMSafe thread.

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Old 02-22-2013, 07:29 AM   #39
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The moto is in an under ground garage at a different hotel. I went and cranked it up this morning. It fired up perfect and ran till one heat bar and one dead, it fired right back up, but with the RPMs varying a bit, went dead again, fired right back up and ran perfect. I would suppose that is almost normal and I am not very concerned if the problem is no greater than the situation yesterday and today. I definitely think it is an electrical problem and I don't think it is a bad wire some where. The switch from troubled idle to perfection is too quick and seamless for that. I also think the balancing of the TBs in the BMW Shop has made a big improvement. But as always, want the views of others.

A short recap if I may. The moto has only failed to run for a period four times. In two of these cases it cranked up and idled till it hit one heat bar as today, but failed to crank back up. In one case it had been ran for 50 miles before it quit and in the other case it never cranked up the first time.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:53 AM   #40
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If you are stil in Guatemala try to get hold of Antonio at Tar moto. I have worked with him on occasions. If he can not assit you maybe he can point you in the right direction. We could have them test a couple of things and communicate by email the results. I have sent them parts pretty quickly.
Good luck. If you go to Antonios let him know this is Steve from Colorado that sent you.
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:01 PM   #41
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+1 on the Hall sensor - those things can have all sorts of different symptoms and failure modes, especially if the problem is intermittent as it seems to be now. DAMHIK !
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Old 02-23-2013, 06:03 AM   #42
dwj - Donnie OP
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Originally Posted by PukaWai View Post
+1 on the Hall sensor - those things can have all sorts of different symptoms and failure modes, especially if the problem is intermittent as it seems to be now. DAMHIK !
The BMW Shop said it tested fine, but maybe it was not messing up at the time. I was under the assumption that the Hall Sensor would tend to have a problem when the moto is hot. My problem has generally occurred at the cold start up in the mornings. But, I am certainly not saying that is not the problem. I cranked it up this morning and rode half a mile to the hotel and it was perfect.
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Old 02-23-2013, 03:59 PM   #43
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Just trying to be helpful ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwj - Donnie View Post
The BMW Shop said it tested fine, but maybe it was not messing up at the time. I was under the assumption that the Hall Sensor would tend to have a problem when the moto is hot. My problem has generally occurred at the cold start up in the mornings. But, I am certainly not saying that is not the problem. I cranked it up this morning and rode half a mile to the hotel and it was perfect.

Donnie, hi!

This might sound crazy, but several aspects of the way the bike is running make me think of this.

Last summer a gentleman from up here in New England was riding in the Canadian Maritimes, when he had problems with his bike. He took it in to have the Hall Effect Sensor fixed, and then things just started to get worse. Here's his story, which has a lot of mistakes, misunderstandings, and misdirection.

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=827860

Ultimately what they found was when the Hall Effect Sensor was replaced, the cup, the the timing cup that has the cut out, which passes between each of the two Hall Effect Sensors, was out of place.

What happens is it's relatively easy to take the alternator belt off with a screw driver, and one would think it would be equally as easy to put it back on without having to loosen up the alternator. And in all honesty, I've done it too. This apparently easy method is to put the belt on the lower pulley, put the cup in place, then just insert the bolt that hold them to the crank, and tighten up. Sounds simple, yes?

From the outside, everything looks fine, but what happens is the tension from the belt will shift the cup out of place a little bit, and the tightening of the bolt will lock the cup into a misaligned spot. This can make the timing of the fuel injectors and sparkplugs to be off. At the same time, because of the alignment, one side of the engine could be firing perfectly, but the other side might not be.

When you said your bike seemed to be running on one cylinder I had a flashback to one time when I had just replaced a HES doing everything mentioned above, took the belt off with screwdriver, put it back on without loosening the alternator belt. As soon as I fired up the bike, which started hard, it was running on one cylinder. Actually, as it sat idling, I think it might have been running on two, but as soon as I turned the throttle, the advance of the spark (i'm guessing) put the timing of out of the proper spot and the bike stopped running on both cylinders. I didn't let the bike warm up to two bars or anything like that, I just shut it off and tried it again, same issue.

After taking everything apart, including removing the HES and testing it, I found the HES was fine, but there was a mark on the inside circle where I could see the pulley and bolt had pinched the cup between the end of the crankshaft and the pulley. I had another cup, and put that on, loosened the alternator, put the pulley and belt on, carefully making sure everything was aligned, and started the bike back up. It ran great!

My thought is having the cup out of alignment will allow the bike to run, some, but it won't be running perfectly. It's a timing cup, after all. My thoughts about why at two bars the bike runs better, makes me think that the Motronic has something to do with that.

As I recall, there's a cold start function with the Motronics, that either add more fuel, or more advance or something. Please know, I do not profess to be a Motronic expert, nor do I even think I know that much about them, outside of having played with the Motronic years ago in the VW Rally Car we raced. But it seems to me the Motronic either changes the actual timing of the fuel injection and spark, as well as the duration. It could be that when the engine is warmed up and running better, that the timing has now moved to a point where it's offsetting the misaligned HES timing cup.

I should say that this idea could be off the wall, and you'll find that something else out there is causing the problem, but I'm just trying to be helpful.

Keep in mind that any testing of the Hall Effect Sensor, itself, would be good, because it's sending a signal still, just that the timing of the signal could be off because of the bad cup. Also when the cup is either pinched, or has lost the keyway tab, like the gentleman's bike in the attached thread, every time the cup is put back on, it's probably going to be misaligned.

Does any of that make sense?

Good luck ...



Liz
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Old 02-23-2013, 04:41 PM   #44
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Just wondering ...

PS: Did you keep the old HES?
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Old 02-23-2013, 06:04 PM   #45
dwj - Donnie OP
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Some more info that may help in determining what is wrong with my moto. This morning when I rode from the garage to the hotel, I did not wait on the moto to warm up, I just cranked it up and left. I did the same when I left the hotel. All with no problems. After an hour or so I stopped for lunch. When I left the moto had one heat bar, as it hit two bars it died, I did not clutch the moto, I let the engine continue to turn. And then it started back. Over the next 10 minutes this occurred about six times. Each time I did nothing and it would fire back in a few seconds. Once it fired back when I down shifted and once it stopped. It fired back up as soon as I hit the starter and pulled away with no problem. The thing that I noticed was that each time it lost power the tach went to 0, even though I was not clutching the moto and the engine was turning. I am sure this means something, but I have no idea what. After the moto was at operating temp for a minute or so, there were no more problems the remainder of the day. I was going from 7,500 to 8,200 feet during this problem, but was never less than 5,000 feet the remainder of the day.


Any ideas with the additional info?
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