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Old 03-12-2013, 01:48 PM   #61
a1fa
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Originally Posted by pvangel View Post
I totally agree PA, You saw some of the TERRIBLE workmanship on my trailer from Haulmark which is a national company and some of the things they did were just plain poor workmanship, not to hijack the thread or turn it political but it is why this country is failing. I tell my son over and over again if you are not giving 110% you are not doing what I expect of you. It's a shame just a shame...
+1. This is unacceptable. You should post their name and post negative reviews. The way they handled this is very poor, and the way they built their product.... They don't deserve to stay in business.
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Old 03-12-2013, 06:39 PM   #62
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Since I contacted them, they have offered me $300 plus material for me to rip apart the rest of the trailer, look for anything else and repair the rest...

I can't explain how long it is going to take me. It's a nice gesture, but honestly... you decide to pay the price they charge it exchange for not having to spend the time to do it yourself. Now, I end up doing it myself.

I still like the trailer very much and am happy with everything else, just upset that this stuff is hidden.

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Old 03-12-2013, 06:42 PM   #63
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Anyway, I got my folding bed / dinette installed, and a cheap but good looking overhead cabinet hung. It's starting to come around! Pics soon.

Probably work on the table post tomorrow.

Wish I had more time. I love playing around with this stuff.

Solar this summer!

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Old 03-12-2013, 10:42 PM   #64
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On the subject of the LED bulbs, I'd be after these guys:

http://www.superbrightleds.com/morei...ase-tower/207/
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Old 03-13-2013, 05:48 PM   #65
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the reason why I want to trade my XLR toyhauler for one of these is cause the Forest River product is so cheap. they look good but really cheap

do you still think the VRV are worth the money ??

I saw one a couple weekends ago at local dealership and I like them a lot but I want it to last,
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Old 03-13-2013, 06:28 PM   #66
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I live just outside of 'rv country' and can tell you that after being in many of the factories, what you found doesn't surprise me at all. Those things aren't built for quality, rather quantity.

The other unfortunate part is, 99% of the people who own these trailers being produced today are more worried about the couch color and ceiling fan speed than the construction of the trailer.

I think it would be well worth your time to pull all of the panels down, re-insulate it and pay a lawyer a few bucks to draw up a nice little 'give me some money back' letter. Its safe to say that the workers in the trailer factories are being paid $18-$20/hr so I dont think its unreasonable to ask for that amount back when re-doing your trailer.

What a shame.
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Old 03-13-2013, 06:32 PM   #67
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I sat for a few minutes thinking about this one... it depends. What's more important (and available) to you; time or money? How much of a perfectionist are you? If I were retired and the kids were off to college, I'd buy as stripped down version as I could and take a looooong time to build my own. I would also do the same for a 4x4 Sprinter 3500 RV conversion. I'd do it myself... the RIGHT way!

With that said, I have a little bit of money, and very little time and so much I want to do. For the money, the VRV is a good product. Like most things though, pride in workmanship just isn't there. It's a shame. But that's why I did what I did. I bought something as stripped down as I could and still not have to spend all that much time on building. I believe the more options one would get, the more issues you would have. For example, take a look at the warranty page of their website. All it shows is the info for the products contacts. My guess, you have an issue, they tell you to contact the product manufacturer. I personally feel that if you had a problem with something, say the heater, they should replace it for you and deal with the product manufacturer on their own. I.E. they should back what they install! In my case, I feel they should come get it, repair the shotty workmanship and return it and do so in a quick manner. And honestly, if it were my company, I would wash and wax the vehicle and install, as a gesture of good faith, an option that wasn't on the vehicle. My company would be beyond reproach. My company would simply be the best bar none and I would back it... 100%.

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Old 03-13-2013, 06:36 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by PA Slammer View Post
I sat for a few minutes thinking about this one... it depends. What's more important (and available) to you; time or money? How much of a perfectionist are you? If I were retired and the kids were off to college, I'd buy as stripped down version as I could and take a looooong time to build my own. I would also do the same for a 4x4 Sprinter 3500 RV conversion. I'd do it myself... the RIGHT way!

With that said, I have a little bit of money, and very little time and so much I want to do. For the money, the VRV is a good product. Like most things though, pride in workmanship just isn't there. It's a shame. But that's why I did what I did. I bought something as stripped down as I could and still not have to spend all that much time on building. I believe the more options one would get, the more issues you would have. For example, take a look at the warranty page of their website. All it shows is the info for the products contacts. My guess, you have an issue, they tell you to contact the product manufacturer. I personally feel that if you had a problem with something, say the heater, they should replace it for you and deal with the product manufacturer on their own. I.E. they should back what they install! In my case, I feel they should come get it, repair the shotty workmanship and return it and do so in a quick manner. And honestly, if it were my company, I would wash and wax the vehicle and install, as a gesture of good faith, an option that wasn't on the vehicle. My company would be beyond reproach. My company would simply be the best bar none and I would back it... 100%.

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I could not agree more....
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Old 03-13-2013, 11:13 PM   #69
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It's a shame that you can't even spend $12K on something and find it shoddily made.

Without excusing the manufacturer, who absolutely should have better quality control, I think the American consumers ever pressing desire to have cheaper and cheaper products is certainly one of the leading causes in the demise of quality. (Not just of product, but of service too. I see it everywhere.) Costs have to be cut from somewhere. But it should never have to be at the price of quality.

The WalMart-isation of the rest of our economy is potentially a very very bad thing.
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Old 03-14-2013, 04:52 AM   #70
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For what it's worth, someone very close to me was outed at a large RV manufacture for raising QC concerns at the corporate level.

I agree with everything you've said.


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Old 03-14-2013, 05:19 AM   #71
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It's a shame that you can't even spend $12K on something and find it shoddily made.

Without excusing the manufacturer, who absolutely should have better quality control, I think the American consumers ever pressing desire to have cheaper and cheaper products is certainly one of the leading causes in the demise of quality. (Not just of product, but of service too. I see it everywhere.) Costs have to be cut from somewhere. But it should never have to be at the price of quality.

The WalMart-isation of the rest of our economy is potentially a very very bad thing.
I agree with the "I want it cheap." mentality. But I didn't buy this at Walmart. I decided to save my money by buying a stripped down 2011 model that didn't sell. However, I still bought the best (?) out there. Their products aren't cheap at all! Personally, I never ever buy the cheapest anything. I never buy the most expensive either though. I usually buy one to two steps below the most expensive. I don't want to own a P.O.S. and feel it's worth it to pay the extra cash for quality. However, I feel in RV and trailer industry the majority of the market is just shit! I really hate to be so blunt, but... Isn't this stuff made to be used outdoors? It's all so damn fragile. And 99% of it can only be used in the summer; waterlines freeze, plastic gets too brittle, cheap metals rusts so easily, nothing is insulated, etc...

Too frustrating...

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Old 03-14-2013, 06:50 AM   #72
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My goodness...so far what do we have? You found one problem that COULD be chalked up as an honest mistake and are simply ASSUMING it's some kind of wide-spread problem without any evidence to back that up. You're already up to $300 they're offering you for that one mistake, which seems pretty reasonable, IMHO.

Sure, if you strip the rest of the walls and find it's half insulated or something, then we got a problem. I'm not saying that will or won't happen, but it's not kind to just start lumping Livin' Lite in with every other RV manufacturer *just* because of something that might just be one mistake.

And remember, what you bought was actually *custom* work. It's the one that's *most* likely to be messed up for what you got, anyway. Sure, there's less of it to be messed up, so you brought your percentages down some that way, but in reality, the less standard it is, the more likely what you did get gets hosed, IMHO.

I'm sure Livin' Lite ain't perfect, but so far from what I've seen they are WAY better than anything else going. You sure as hell won't find any wood and staples in there, which will be all over nearly everything else in that segment. As for the warranty thing, again, you're going off the deep end of assumptions without any evidence. *sigh* Besides, your trailer came with almost no "products" in it anyway. They can't refer you to anyone else when something breaks.


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Old 03-14-2013, 10:26 AM   #73
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A coworker of mine has the same toy hauler... stripped down version, and his brakes were assembled backwards... He found out while he was replacing a flat tire.
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:38 AM   #74
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My goodness...so far what do we have? You found one problem that COULD be chalked up as an honest mistake and are simply ASSUMING it's some kind of wide-spread problem without any evidence to back that up. You're already up to $300 they're offering you for that one mistake, which seems pretty reasonable, IMHO.

Sure, if you strip the rest of the walls and find it's half insulated or something, then we got a problem. I'm not saying that will or won't happen, but it's not kind to just start lumping Livin' Lite in with every other RV manufacturer *just* because of something that might just be one mistake.

And remember, what you bought was actually *custom* work. It's the one that's *most* likely to be messed up for what you got, anyway. Sure, there's less of it to be messed up, so you brought your percentages down some that way, but in reality, the less standard it is, the more likely what you did get gets hosed, IMHO.

I'm sure Livin' Lite ain't perfect, but so far from what I've seen they are WAY better than anything else going. You sure as hell won't find any wood and staples in there, which will be all over nearly everything else in that segment. As for the warranty thing, again, you're going off the deep end of assumptions without any evidence. *sigh* Besides, your trailer came with almost no "products" in it anyway. They can't refer you to anyone else when something breaks.


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Wow Donnie, sounds like I did something to piss you off personally... :

An "honest mistake"? Sure forgetting to put in a piece of insulation could be an "honest mistake", although not seeing a 16 inch wide 7 foot tall piece of bright white insulation is a stretch. But how does that explain the insulation that was installed? Every single cut is terrible with huge gaps everywhere. And if you think $300 is reasonable, I'll hire you out to disassemble the entire interior to fix the rest of the poor workmanship. Until you start taking things down, you don't realize how much work is involved. It's going to take more time than I expected for sure; it appears the window, door and fold out bed all went in after the interior walls were complete or some assemblage close to that. So all that trim work has to come down at a minimum, some of which is riveted, so drilling out rivets and re-riveting. All the cabinets, bathroom, counter tops, all have to be removed as well just to get behind the walls. But at least I'll get $300... after paying $12,000. The reason I "lumped" them into the rest is because they clearly emphasize their quality all over the place. Again, this is why I decided to spend $12,000 on a stripped down trailer. Remember it listed around $15,800 if I recall correctly and I only got this deal because it sat for over two years at a dealer.

Not sure of your comment "custom work" as every Livin Lite trailer is hand built. And mine was made exactly like any other VRV trailer out there, with the exception that I have no options installed, just a stripped down trailer. There is no "custom" in this build that I know of.

As for not finding any wood and staples... they emphasize no wood. However, the paneling is indeed made out of some type of wood with a coated material on the outside, but nevertheless it is wood. But I'm too busy with other concerns to worry about that right now.

Again, not sure why you are taking such a defensive stand on what I've posted here. I was asked my opinion and I gave it; Livin Lite seems to be the best out there, but they still have a quality assurance problem. And, in my opinion, for what they charge, there should be no problems. But if their are... they should be dealt with in a highly professional manner. I want what I paid for, not a few dollars thrown my way in compensation.

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Old 03-14-2013, 11:02 AM   #75
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And honestly Donnie, I ain't getting on you. I know you just ordered your Livin Lite. I'm happy for you and I think you'll really enjoy it. I love mine, but it does have issues. And my main advice is for you to go down to pick it up when that day roles around, with the expectation that you won't be bringing it home right away. Go over it with a magnifying glass and insist everything be fixed before you pull it off the lot. And pray that you are able to "see" everything and that it's nit hidden behind a "wood" panelled wall... :what:

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